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Old 02-09-2012, 06:40 AM   #1
Kayakr01
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Gerson Therapy: what is your experience with it?

Anyone using Gerson Therapy or aspects of it? Have you tried coffee enemas? Is it working? Not working?

There is a lot of info on the internet and some fascinating documentaries on Netflix about it.
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Old 02-14-2012, 11:35 AM   #2
TanyaRD
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Re: Gerson Therapy: what is your experience with it?

Bob,
Here is a link that might be helpful.

http://www.mskcc.org/cancer-care/herb/gerson-regimen
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Old 02-14-2012, 01:07 PM   #3
StephN
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Re: Gerson Therapy: what is your experience with it?

All I can answer is that I know 3 women who used this diet plan and none of them survived their breast cancer.

That does not mean there are those who DID survive - this is just my experience. In the cases I know there was no lasting benefit.

Maybe the research should focus on breast cancer patients as it seems there is use of this plan by other people for various reasons.
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Live in the moment.

MY STORY SO FAR ~~~~
Found suspicious lump 9/2000
Lumpectomy, then node dissection and port placement
Stage IIB, 8 pos nodes of 18, Grade 3, ER & PR -
Adriamycin 12 weekly, taxotere 4 rounds
36 rads - very little burning
3 mos after rads liver full of tumors, Stage IV Jan 2002, one spot on sternum
Weekly Taxol, Navelbine, Herceptin for 27 rounds to NED!
2003 & 2004 no active disease - 3 weekly Herceptin + Zometa
Jan 2005 two mets to brain - Gamma Knife on Jan 18
All clear until treated cerebellum spot showing activity on Jan 2006 brain MRI & brain PET
Brain surgery on Feb 9, 2006 - no cancer, 100% radiation necrosis - tumor was still dying
Continue as NED while on Herceptin & quarterly Zometa
Fall-2006 - off Zometa - watching one small brain spot (scar?)
2007 - spot/scar in brain stable - finished anticoagulation therapy for clot along my port-a-catheter - 3 angioplasties to unblock vena cava
2008 - Brain and body still NED! Port removed and scans in Dec.
Dec 2008 - stop Herceptin - Vaccine Trial at U of W begun in Oct. of 2011
STILL NED everywhere in Feb 2014 - on wing & prayer
7/14 - Started twice yearly Zometa for my bones
Jan. 2015 checkup still shows NED
2015 Neuropathy in feet - otherwise all OK - still NED.
Same news for 2016 and all of 2017.
Nov of 2017 - had small skin cancer removed from my face. Will have Zometa end of Jan. 2018.
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Old 02-15-2012, 02:39 PM   #4
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Re: Gerson Therapy: what is your experience with it?

Besides the MSKCC link provided by Tanya http://www.mskcc.org/cancer-care/herb/gerson-regimen, below are two abstracts of research findings on Gerson Therapy:

Oncology (Williston Park). 2010 Feb;24(2):201.
Gerson regimen.

Cassileth B.
Source

Integrative Medicine, Memorial Sloan-Kettering Cancer Center, New York, New York, USA.
Abstract

The Gerson regimen, developed by Max Gerson in the 1930s, is promoted as an alternative cancer treatment. It involves consuming fresh, raw fruit and vegetable juices, eliminating salt from the diet, taking supplements such as potassium, vitamin B12, thyroid hormone, pancreatic enzymes, and detoxifying liver with coffee enemas to stimulate metabolism. Gerson therapy is based on the theory that cancer is caused by alteration of cell metabolism by toxic environmental substances and processed food, which changes its sodium and potassium content. It emphasizes increasing potassium intake and minimizing sodium consumption in an effort to correct the electrolyte imbalance, repair tissue, and detoxify the liver. The coffee enemas are believed to cause dilation of bile ducts and excretion of toxic breakdown products by the liver and through the colon wall. None of these theories has been substantiated by scientific research. Despite proponents' claims of recovery rates as high as 70% to 90%, case reviews by the National Cancer Institute (NCI) and the New York County Medical Society found no evidence of usefulness for the Gerson diet. An NCI-sponsored study of Gonzalez therapy, which is similar to the Gerson diet, showed that patients with inoperable pancreatic adenocarcinoma who underwent standard chemotherapy with gemcitabine (Gemzar) survived three times longer and had better quality of life than those who chose enzyme treatment, which included pancreatic enzymes, nutritional supplements, detoxification, and an organic diet.


Integr Cancer Ther. 2007 Mar;6(1):80-8.
Surviving against all odds: analysis of 6 case studies of patients with cancer who followed the Gerson therapy.
Molassiotis A, Peat P.
Source
University of Manchester, School of Nursing, Midwifery & Social Work, Coupland III, Coupland Street, Manchester M13 9PL, UK. alex.molassiotis@manchester.ac.uk
Abstract
A considerable number of patients with cancer have used or are using the Gerson therapy, an alleged anticancer metabolic diet. However, there is almost no scientific support for this regimen. Hence, the present case review study of 6 patients with metastatic cancer who used the Gerson therapy aims at critically evaluating each case to derive some valid interpretations of its potential effect. All 6 cases had a cancer diagnosis with poor prognosis. Despite the presence of some confounding variables, it seems that the Gerson regimen has supported patients to some extent both physically and psychologically. More scientific attention needs to be directed to this area so that patients can practice safe and appropriate therapies that are based on evidence rather than anecdotes.
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Old 02-15-2012, 04:08 PM   #5
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Re: Gerson Therapy: what is your experience with it?

Kayakr01

Can you please post links to any information you considered interesting.

I would be interested to read more to see if and how his protocols may fit into a wider dietary picture. My response is pure curiosity as I had not read / have no significant knowledge about the therapy.

I have seen mention of the use by Gerson of iodine, B12, liver (which is rich in vitamin A B12 and folate, flax oil (with exclusion of other dietary fats), and juicing.

Many of us are deficient in iodine, B12 / folate, have Omega 3 deficits and excess of Omega 6.

There is suggestive trials based evidence that lack of iodine. lack of folate, and lack of Omega 3, individually have a role in an increased risk of breast cancer. Omega 6 in excess / imbalance with Omega 3 is also associated with an increase risk of breast cancer, so these may provide some possible mechanisms for claimed benefits of Gerson Therapy.

Coffee enemas - With all the evidence on the importance of fecal bacteria, I wonder at the wider effects of regular and repeated disruption of fecal bacterial and its part in the digestive process, immune function etc. From a Google search there does not seem much science in favor of coffee enemas, and in contrast reports of adverse outcomes. There are other ways of killing bacteria in the gut if that is the aim.

http://www.nature.com/ajg/journal/v1...g2009494a.html

On the the other hand there is some really interesting research on the removal of digestive bacteria of a sick person (in this paper C.difficle) followed by a transplant of fecal material (yes human pooo) from a healthy person.

http://www.rheumatologynews.com/news...3f3be76ff.html

They are looking at potential links to all sorts of medical conditions.

http://www.nature.com/nrgastro/journ....2011.244.html

Last edited by R.B.; 02-15-2012 at 05:39 PM..
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Old 02-15-2012, 04:13 PM   #6
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Re: Gerson Therapy: what is your experience with it?

Sorry duplicate so deleted

Last edited by R.B.; 02-15-2012 at 05:36 PM.. Reason: Duplicate
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Old 02-18-2012, 07:15 AM   #7
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Re: Gerson Therapy: what is your experience with it?

While I was researching my treatment options for multifocal stage 3 her2 positive cancer (the spots looked like swiss cheese on mammo and ultrasound), I took at a look at a whole bunch of alternative medicine approaches. I read Moss Reports, "Cancer: Step Outside the box", "Outsmart your cancer: alternative non-toxic treatments that work", "The "Gerson Way" saw the Dvd "Healing Cancer from the inside out", "The Breast Stays put", etc. I spoke with clinics in Mexico and in the US.A who treated cancer with alternative medicine.

I spoke with 4 woman with breast cancer over the phone (none of them her2) who said their breast cancer was eliminated on Gerson Therapy and one whose cancer had not grown since on it. A couple of them were RNs as I am. One was a spry naturopathic physican who was in her 70s and said she was given a death sentence for breast cancer in her 30s and told she would die in a matter of months without treatment--she did not have a mastectomy, chemo, or radiation--just did Gerson Therapy. She said she was NED all these years later. I also spoke with some folks with other types of cancer (one was pancreatic) who also said they were also NED or improving. I decided to try it before conventional therapy while my immune system was intact. Oh, how I wanted that approach to work! It is a very challenging, intense program and I imagine most people would rather die than follow that approach but not me. I have a friend doing it instead of chemo post surgery for ovarian cancer and she is doing very well so far.


I followed the Gerson Therapy for a couple months while having my breast monitored periodically by ultrasound. There was not much change (mostly stable, slight increase in sizes of some of the spots- after the first four weeks) but it grew more after that when checked 5 weeks later. I then elected to do all the things I hoped to avoid by the Gerson Therapy (mastectomy (cancer in 6 out of 11 lymph nodes), chemo, radiation, Herceptin). I do not regret having tried the Gerson Therapy first--for me personally,I needed to see if it was a tool that God would use. The whole idea of addressing detoxification and nutritional deficiencies is more in keeping with my personal bent to address root causes. However, it did not work for me and I want to live so have altered my approach in this battle and again, am seeing if these things I am doing now are tools God will use. I figure He's the only One who can make any of this stuff work anyway.

The coffee enemas are to stimulate the portal vein and cause dumping of toxins in the detoxification process. I used probiotics to replenish healthy bacteria. I will say, after different times of feeling ill during the detoxification process I felt like I was back in my 20s again. I "FELT" fabulous but the cancer was growing. I am doing some organic juicing now as I am building back up my body, but not the 13/ day I was doing on Gerson.

I wish you the best.

Paula
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Old 02-18-2012, 07:46 AM   #8
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Re: Gerson Therapy: what is your experience with it?

I am new here. BMX on 2/1 - Lobular Breast Cancer - HER+ - ER+ PR 0 - I too am trying the alternative way for now - at least until June when my only daughter (child) is getting married. I will be getting all information from onc. and holistic dr. beforehand. I know they say it is best to do something quickly in way of conventional medication but I want quality of life during this wonderful time in my life through June. May I ask how many months from diagnosis to when you had your first conventional treatment?
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Old 02-18-2012, 08:26 AM   #9
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Re: Gerson Therapy: what is your experience with it?

I had the terrible mammogram on 12/30/10 (i year before it was fine), did the follow-up bone scan, cats scans, pets scans right away. Then I prayed, did juice fasting, water fasting, supps, etc while !figured out what to do, then the Gerson Therapy. I had the mastectomy on May 12, 2011.

I was already a very healthy eating vegan for years before all this (non-toxic kind of gal who had mercury fillings in my teeth removed 15 yrs ago, drank out of glass instead of plastic, avoidied chemicals/microwave use etc). I was so shocked to get cancer as I beleived the connection between animal consumption and disease. There was an article that had a big impact on my thinking. It is here: http://www.docstoc.com/docs/48996855...y-Webster-Kehr. It makes sense to me. You can cut out cancer, poison it, radiate it, etc but if you dont address the cause, what is to stop it from popping back up, perhaps somewhere else? I did not like taking medicine which could cause other kinds of cancer and had the potential of horrific side effects. The thing is, it didn't work for me and I was not going to go down with a sinking ship.

I know someone who was diagnosed at stage 1 HER2 and her Dr told her she's be stage 4 if she waited the 6 months she wanted to give alternative therapy to see if it would work. She did the conventional cancer treatment right away. I don't know if it was a scare tactic or not. The documentation is there that Her2 can be very fast and very aggressive and very deadly. My surgeon told me that, without conventional treatment, she thought I'd be dead in 6 mos to 2 years. I knew that before trying Gerson. You want to make a careful, well thought-out decision that is right for you.


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Old 02-18-2012, 09:29 AM   #10
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Re: Gerson Therapy: what is your experience with it?

Thanks Paula...I just feel if I have this breast cancer which btw does not show up on mommographies - and I hadn't had one in three years prior - then waiting until June - 3 months is not going to matter much....my dr. told me I am cancer free and this is so that it does not recur....so you waited four months and it came back??? Is that my understanding...my BS said I am cancer free - margins clear no lymph node involvement and yet it can come back in months....am I understanding this right??? Thank you so much Paula for your help...again, I am living a nightmare right now..my daughter got engaged in Oct. I am was diagnosed day after xmas and then DMX two weeks ago...I am trying to feel better from the surgery and get through this wedding without feeling any worse than I do already. I am still in pain from the DMX...sorry, I know I am ranting....((((hugs)))
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Old 02-18-2012, 11:45 AM   #11
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Re: Gerson Therapy: what is your experience with it?

Yes, your cancer can still exist in your body as "micromets" and not be visible and too few at this point to show on a blood screening.

If your cancer is HER2 positive there are some targeted treatments you can take, which should not make you feel "sick."

The big gun in our case is Herceptin. Plus there are some clinical trials using more than one drug to target the very complex HER1,2,3 and 4 pathways. This might be all you need.

If you wait you may not be eligible for something like I am talking about, and you risk the cancer moving along.
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"When I hear music, I fear no danger. I am invulnerable. I see no foe. I am related to the earliest times, and to the latest." H.D. Thoreau
Live in the moment.

MY STORY SO FAR ~~~~
Found suspicious lump 9/2000
Lumpectomy, then node dissection and port placement
Stage IIB, 8 pos nodes of 18, Grade 3, ER & PR -
Adriamycin 12 weekly, taxotere 4 rounds
36 rads - very little burning
3 mos after rads liver full of tumors, Stage IV Jan 2002, one spot on sternum
Weekly Taxol, Navelbine, Herceptin for 27 rounds to NED!
2003 & 2004 no active disease - 3 weekly Herceptin + Zometa
Jan 2005 two mets to brain - Gamma Knife on Jan 18
All clear until treated cerebellum spot showing activity on Jan 2006 brain MRI & brain PET
Brain surgery on Feb 9, 2006 - no cancer, 100% radiation necrosis - tumor was still dying
Continue as NED while on Herceptin & quarterly Zometa
Fall-2006 - off Zometa - watching one small brain spot (scar?)
2007 - spot/scar in brain stable - finished anticoagulation therapy for clot along my port-a-catheter - 3 angioplasties to unblock vena cava
2008 - Brain and body still NED! Port removed and scans in Dec.
Dec 2008 - stop Herceptin - Vaccine Trial at U of W begun in Oct. of 2011
STILL NED everywhere in Feb 2014 - on wing & prayer
7/14 - Started twice yearly Zometa for my bones
Jan. 2015 checkup still shows NED
2015 Neuropathy in feet - otherwise all OK - still NED.
Same news for 2016 and all of 2017.
Nov of 2017 - had small skin cancer removed from my face. Will have Zometa end of Jan. 2018.
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Old 02-18-2012, 01:41 PM   #12
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Re: Gerson Therapy: what is your experience with it?

Just a terrible diagnosis with this HER2+ - Have there been anyone that has had no treatment and is still alive with this HER2+. Anyone on any of these postings???
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Old 02-18-2012, 05:37 PM   #13
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Re: Gerson Therapy: what is your experience with it?

Hugs backatcha, Barbie. I know this is hard. How wonderful yours was caught so early--very much in your favor.
I had the mammogram Dec 30, 2010, the biopsy a following week, then tried nutiritonal therapy and the mastectomy was May 12th 2011 (so 4 1/2 mos after diagnosis) followed by chemo and radiation. Herceptin (every 21 days for a year) will go til June. To the best of my knowledge I am doing terrific now in the cancer department.

I'm sorry you are going through all this too--right in the middle of the happy, busy occasion of wedding planning.

Even though I really, REALLY didn't want to do the mastectomy, chemo, Herceptin and radiation route I am glad I did it (would have loved to have been a poster child that there was a better way to avoid all that but it was not to be) . Honestly, the prognosis stats are very favorable with conventional reatment and terrible without.


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Old 02-18-2012, 06:36 PM   #14
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Re: Gerson Therapy: what is your experience with it?

Barbie,

A dear physician friend who is battling prostate cancer called me when he heard I was diagnosed with Her2+ BC. Like you I really questioned the need for such aggressive treatment. Chemo for such a small tumor? Are they nuts? He told me Her2 is deadly and hyper-aggressive, that it can grow like wildfire and waiting months is folly. His final advise was this, "hit it as HARD you can the first opportunity you get." He told me that I should never want it to return, because it is always more difficult to battle under those circumstances. I was very fortunate that mine was found early and not in my lymph nodes. As you can see from my signature I chose to fight it through all the conventional treatment, but what you do not see is that I have embraced alternative treatment as well with supplements.

I wish you good luck and my advise is NOT to wait, but to put your head down and walk the path that is before you. Do the chemo and Herceptin if that is what your Onc advises. The year is over before you know it and you will be glad you fought it with all you had at the first opportunity presented. If you don't and it spreads you will live with the "if only I had....."
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Old 02-18-2012, 09:02 PM   #15
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Re: Gerson Therapy: what is your experience with it?

Thanks for your concerns.
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Old 02-19-2012, 04:43 AM   #16
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Re: Gerson Therapy: what is your experience with it?

Dear Barbie,
Boy, you are among people here who understand the emotions you are feeling!!!!! It can feel overwhelming at times. My heart goes out to you.
I can honestly say I gave Gerson Therapy "my all"--it was not a half-hearted attempt and there was "no cheating". I followed it to a "T" except for a couple minor things which were more hypervigilent than even that program was. It is a non-stop, extremely intense program getting in 13 freshly pressed (2 step process--not your standard juicing and has to be fresh each time) organic juices per day plus the meals, supplements, and the rest of the detox process. If I remember correctly, I consumed the equivalent of 20 + pounds of fresh organic produce needed per day for juicing and eating. My family and friends helped me with washing those mounds of veggies, juicing, etc. Here are some examples of things I did differently than the specified program: probiotics---I did not want to do 5-6 coffee enemas/day without replenishing healthy bacteria and so I took acidophilus, bifidus, etc probiotics--like Culturelle which isn't on the program. I distilled my water into glass bottles instead of buying it in plastic. I also used a friend's home infrared sauna to try and raise body temp, sweat, and remove more toxins through the skin which is not on the program but if you go to their Mexico clinic there is some heat therapy I think and saunas are included in many other alternative medicine programs (NOT good though if you've had lymph node removal though--would be a big risk for lymphedema. Too bad--wish I could use a sauna to help me detox from the chemo, etc) . I am starting to explore what my detox options are but right now I do not want to interfere with the Herceptin I am getting until June. I would be very interested in hearing what kinds of things people are doing for detox. Laurel and others--can you share specifics?
Anyway---you are talking to someone who, despite my doctors and some others thinking I was crazy to do what I did, did it anyway. The truth is, Her2 pos cancer can kill people quickly. Some breast cancers are slow growing but not this one. There is a risk involved in delaying treatment while trying other things. You might want to take that risk and you might not. I did it while monitoring the cancer by ultrasound--my cancer-laden breast was my "check engine light" for how it was working and I was very sad and disappointed that it did not work for me. Even though the therapy is difficult (worst thing for me personally was oral and rectal castor oil every other day) I would have gladly stuck to it if it had worked but it did not for me. I felt like I would "kick myself" if I did not give it a try. I am very, very thankful that conventional therapy is going well for me thusfar. This whole cancer thing is rough stuff and I am hanging onto the Lord's Hand real tight.
If you are interested, here is a link to my blog: http://jpoliver.com/wordpress/ If you follow the right side down, you can see the archives beginning in January of last year--you might enjoy poking around . I had ZERO peace about jumping right into conventional therapy: honestly, I had very little confidence in it--thought it might kill me before the cancer did. Man, did I ever struggle and wrestle over conventional therapy--I could hardly bring myself to do it. I had read so much negative about conventional therapy and so much positive about natural-medicine material over the years and was totally convinced that the natural/non toxic approach was the way to go. I am a nurse (no longer working in that field now) and I have held the hands and cared for patients dying of cancer who did every last thing their doctors had told them to do. I esteem quality of life very highly. I witnessed people trying to eek out a few more months who spent it in agony in hospitals. I even gave chemo to some of them. Even though it was long ago that I was doing hospital nursing, I wasn't sure so much had changed over the years. Actually, now I've been through all this and have done more research, I see that Herceptin has made a world of difference in the outcome for many women (not all, but many) and certainly there are much better medications to help with things like nausea with chemo . This board is full of courageous women who are fighting with every tool they can. Gerson Therapy was the tool I chose first. I wish it worked for me but it didn't.
The bottom line: the cancer is in our bodies--we listen to what the "experts" say and then each get to choose what we think is the best match for ourselves.
Rooting for ya,
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Old 02-19-2012, 04:58 AM   #17
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Re: Gerson Therapy: what is your experience with it?

So am I to understand you did not do a BMX first or any surgery first and just did the Gerson Diet?

I have had a BMX on 2/1 - the cancer is gone at least in the breasts - it was removed surgically - no node involvement - I know that some cells may still be hiding somewhere...I am aware of that - I am not opposed to Herceptin - That may be the way to go for me...I am going to onc. on March 5th and will discuss with her Herceptin - as far as chemo - from what I read, it only helps breast cancer in 1.5% of patients not to have a recurrence. I know they give chemo with Herceptin - is that no longer than 12 week theory for treatment because of the chemo? Something else I have to ask my oncologist - Herceptin may be in my future. Thank you Paula for taking the time to explain.
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Old 02-19-2012, 06:38 AM   #18
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Re: Gerson Therapy: what is your experience with it?

Thank you Paula for sharing. It is certainly very insightful.
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Old 02-19-2012, 09:54 AM   #19
Paula O
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Re: Gerson Therapy: what is your experience with it?

Barbie,
I guess I don't know what a BMX is. I though "Bx" was an abbreviation for biopsy and the M was for mammary or something but maybe I'm wrong. I had a biopsy (of one of the multiple tumors and one of the lymph nodes) along with CT scans, PET scan, etc and that was it before I began Gerson Therapy. I did get to speak with Charlotte Gerson herself over the phone, told her I was Her2 positive, etc and asked her if she recc I did a mastectomy before starting GT and she did not.

Paula
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Old 02-19-2012, 02:23 PM   #20
NanaJoni
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Re: Gerson Therapy: what is your experience with it?

I use "bmx" for bilateral mastectomy. Not sure if that's a standard for others.
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Joni -64 yrs old -
3/01/10: found lump in rt.breast
3/12/10: mammogram/ultrasnd/biopsy-invasive bc & DCIS; 2 tumors (2cm er-/pr-/HER2-& 1.8 cm er-/pr-/HER2+); grade 3;poorly differentiated
3/24/10:sent.node biopsy clear
3/31/10:bi-lateral mx.;atypical ductal hyperplasia-lft side
4/21/10:wound revision-infection/scarring 4/28/10:seromas both sides
5/21/10:port installed,TCH chemo (6 x 3 wks); Herc,-1yr; 33 rad tx after chemo
07/2010: port not working-2nd port didnt'work;3rd port opposite side.
07/2010: 2 weeks after 3rd port surgery, threw 3 pulm. emboli-IVC filter installed; warfarin
08/2010: hospitalizations w/3 of chemos; decision to stop after 4th-on to radiation in Oct 2010;Herc cont.
12/03/2010 - finished 33 rads Hooray!! cont. Herc. every 3 wks
4/2011 - pneumonia ??? Nope-radiation pneumonitis. No more Herc.
5/2011 - NED!!! port out.
8/2011 - clean PET & CT scans.Still NED
7/2012 - Still NED/very blessed.
2/2013 - 6 mos checkup-all clear. CA2729 down frm 13 to 11.
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