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Old 12-04-2013, 05:54 AM   #1
LeahM
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Location: Bethlehem PA
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Question

Hi All

I was wondering...when it is said that your risk of recurrence decreases after 5, 10 years etc....when exactly do you start counting the years? A year after diagnosis? A year after chemo? Rads? A year after you complete Herceptin??

Thanks
Leah
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39 year old wife, mother of one and nurse.
April 20, 2012: Dx Invasive Ductal Carcinoma
April 25, 2012: ER+(5%), PR-, HER2+++
May 10, 2012: BRCA 1,2 Negative
May 23, 2012: MUGA Scan EF 70%
May 31, 2012: B/L Mastectomy. 2/2 nodes removed and CLEAR!! Power Port placed. 2 Drains. 2 Expanders placed
June 5, 2012: Drains OUT! Ahhhh..
June 12, 2012: Final Pathology Report, .8x.3cm tumor. Micromets to 1 node .35mm under cytokeratin staining. Stage 2A. Onc says "you are lucky to have found this early"
July 10, 2012: Started 6 rounds of TCH with weekly H
Sept 5, 2012: MUGA 65%
Sept 20, 2012: CAT scan of brain clear!
Oct 23, 2012: LAST TC! AMEN! Continue Herceptin every three weeks until July 2013.
Nov 19, 2012: Port out!
Dec 5, 2012: Started radiation
Dec. 10, 2012: MUGA 65%
Dec. 13, 2012: Turned 40. BEST BIRTHDAY EVER!
Jan 23, 2013: Last radiation. Told I am NED. Continue Herceptin every three weeks till July 2013.
Jan 29, 2013: Begin 5 years of Tamoxifen.
Feb 28, 2013: CT Scan with Contrast of lungs. 5mm and 4mm nodules of unknown origin. Rescan in 3 months.
Mar 6, 2013: EF 60%
May 8, 2013: Exanders out, implants implanted...abd. lipo and fat moved up. Girls are looking good!
June 3, 2013: CT Scan with Contrast of lungs. Previous nodules gone. New nodules (2mm and 3mm) found. Rescan in 3 months. So sorry I opened this can of worms...
June 11, 2013: EF 60%
June 25, 2013: Last Herceptin. wow...
Aug 20, 2013: Tumor markers within normal limits. Xray to sore left ribs shows no disease or fractures.
Sept 9, 2013: CT of lungs shows no disease. Closing this can of worms and moving on.
Nov 20, 2013: Tumor markers within normal limits. Severe Vit D deficiency, started on prescription Vit. D. Blaming chemo for this.
Feb 2014: Tumor markers within normal limits.
May 2014: Tumor markers within normal limits. Graduated to twice yearly onc appts.
Oct 2014: Tumor markers within normal limits.
May 2015: Tumor markers WNL. Bone density scan fine. Bone scan and xray of ribs shows "something" 4th right rib. Could be healed fracture but if it is healed why does it hurt?
Nov 2015: Tumor markers WNL. Follow up bone scan clear.
Feb 2016: Syncope! WTF? Dizzy too. Brain scan clear, ECHO EF 60%, Halter Monitor shows heart is fine. Viral? I will never know.
June 2016: Tumor markers WNL.
Oct 2016: Stabbing pain right eye. Long story short, trigeminal neuralgia.
Nov 2016 Brain MRI clear.
Jan 2017: Tumor markers WNL, still getting weird pain right rib area, and sometimes right upper chest. Xray x2, Bone Scan, Breast MRI all clear. Scar tissue? Rads. I may never know.
www.onmywaytosurvivorhood.blogspot.com
www.thechemobag.com
www.facebook.com/thechemobag
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Old 12-04-2013, 06:45 AM   #2
KDR
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Re: Question

Good question, Leah.

Karen
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World Trade Center Survivor (56th Floor/North Tower): 14 years and still just like yesterday.
Graves Disease, became Euthyroid via Radioactive Iodine, June 2001.
Thyroid Eye Disease. 2003. Decompression surgery in 2009; eyelid lowering surgery in 2010.
Diagnosed: June 2010, liver mets. ER-/PR+10%; HER2+++.
July 2010: Begin Taxol/Herceptin. Eliminate sugar from diet. No surgery or radiation.
January 2011: NED
April 2011: Progression in liver only. Other previous affected areas eradicated. Stop Taxol/Herceptin after 32 infusions.
May 2011: Brain MRI: clear.
May 2011: Begin Tykerb daily, Xeloda twice per day for one week on, one week off, and Herceptin.
November 2011: Progression in liver. All other tumors remain eradicated.
December 2011: BEGIN TRIAL #09-093 Taxol, MCC-DM1 (T-DM1), Perjeta.
Trial requires scans every six weeks, bloodwork and infusions weekly.
Brain MRI: clear.
January 2012: NED. Liver mets, good riddance!
March 2012: NED. Developed SMA (rare blood clot) in intestinal artery and loss of sight in right eye due to optical nerve neuropathy. Resolved when Taxol removed this month.
Continue Protocol of T-DM1 weekly and Perjeta every 3 weeks.
May 2012: NED.
June 2012: Brain MRI: clear.
June-December 2012: NED.
December 2012: TRIAL CONCLUDED; ENTER TRIAL EXTENSION #09-037. CT, Brain MRI, bone scan: clear. NED.
January-March 2013: NED.
June 2013: Brain MRI: clear. CEA upticking; CT shows new met on liver.
July 3, 2013: DISASTER STRIKES during liver ablation: sloppy surgeon cuts intercostal artery and I bleed out, lose 3.5 liters of blood, have major hemothorax, and collapsed lung requiring emergency resuscitative thoracotomy, lung surgery, rib rearrangement and cutting deep connective tissue, transfusion. Ablation incomplete. This life-saving procedure would end up causing me unforgiving pain with every movement I make, permanently, otherwise known as forever.
July 26, 2013: Try Navelbine/Herceptin. Body too weak after surgery and transfusion. Fever. CEA: Normal.
August 16, 2016: second dose Navelbine/Herceptin; CEA: Normal. Will skip doses. Watching and waiting.
September 2013: NED, Herceptin only. CEA: Normal. Started Arimidex.
October-November 2013: NED. Herceptin and Arimidex. CEA, CA125, 15-3: Normal.
December 2013: Something brewing. PET lights up on little spot on liver; CEA upward trend, just outside normal. PET and triphasic liver scan confirm Little Met. Restart Perjeta with Herceptin, stay on Arimidex. Genomic sequencing completed for future treatments, if necessary.
January 2014: Ablate Little Met on the 6th. Happy New Year.
March 2014: Brain MRI: clear. PET/CT reveal liver mets return; new lung mets. This is not funny.
March 2014: BEGIN TRIAL #10-005 A(11)-Temsirolimus plus Neratinib.
April 2014: Genomic testing indicated they could work, they did not. Very strange drug combo for me, felt weird.
April 2014: Started Navelbine and Herceptin. Needed something tried and true, but had significant progression.
June 2014: Doxil and Herceptin.
July 2014: Progression. Got nothing out of it. Brain: NED.
July 2014: Add integrative medical hematologist-oncologist to my team. Begin supplements. These are tumor-busting, immune system boosters. Add glutathione, lysine and taurine IV infusions every three weeks.
July 2014: Begin Gemzar, Herceptin & Perjeta. Happy.
August 2014: ECHO perfect.
January 2015: Begin weekly Vitamin D Analog infusions. 25 mcg. via port.
February 2015: CT: stable.
April 2015: Gem working, but not 100%. Looking into immunotherapy. Finally, treatments for the 21st century!
April 2015: Penn Medicine. Dendritic cell immunotherapy.
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Old 12-04-2013, 08:22 AM   #3
snolan
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Re: Question

I started after my mastectomy, no cancer after surgery.
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dx: DCIS 6/8/10, HER 2+ 7/26/10; Stage I Age 41
Double mast w reconstruction
6 TCH w 1yr herceptin
Tamox.
25 radiation tx
Removal of expander on L due to infection. Tried to save it had 3 bouts of antibiotics and went to see plastic surgeon 2-3x wk to get drained. Saving it was my idea not his. But lost it anyway.
Reconstruction set for December 21st,2011
Finished chemo 12/2010
Finished Herceptin 8/26/11
Reconstruction 12/21/11
Expanders exchanged for silicon 3/19/12
Nipple reconstruction 5/18/12
Nipple tatooing- 7/9/12- All done yay!
11/22/12-Went back to get scar tissue stretched to even the outside of breast, didn't work due to it being radiated skin.
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Old 12-04-2013, 08:25 AM   #4
linn65
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Re: Question

Yeah, I decided to start counting after my masectomy too because it made sense, but I don't know for sure either. If the Alflac lady comes in soon I will ask her because I can buy cancer insurance after 5 years.
__________________
myleftlump.wordpress.com - started blogging my
IDC breast cancer
7/2012 diagnosed with multiple solid lesions
7/20/12 biopsy done. ER+ 30 PR -, HER+++,k167 80% Grade 2
9/2012 biopsy on lymph node - showed malignant

9/2012 Pre-adjunctive TCH chemo.

12/6/12 MRI after Pre-adj.
Results: Modest Decrease in size of left breast malignancy As well as the associated satellite lesions and auxiliary Adenopathy compared to prior study. Doctors hoped for better but good response it didn't grow.

12/18/2012 left masectomy with axillary nodes
Size 3.2 CM, Nottingham score 9/9
Grade 3, no evidence of in situ carcinoma
Areas of angiolymphatic are identified
Carcinoma is 0.5 cm from inked deep
Margin of excision
Attached axillary lymph nodes: metastatic
Carcinoma in 6 of 8 nodes.
Size of largest node 1.5 cm
Extracapsular
ER + 73%, PR+2%, HER2+

2/27/13 6 weeks of IMRT radiation finished

2/2013 Started on Tamoxifan 5 years.

8/2013 will take last Herceptin, 17 treatments total every 3 weeks.

BRCA1 & BRAC2 - Negative

August 28, 2013 DIEP flap on the left breast.
February 2014 Nip & Tuck
March 14, 2014 nipple reconstruction and removed port.
August 14, 2014 lump in lymph nodes under arm and above clavicle. Stage IV
August 28, 2014 herceptin And projeta starting and port put back in.

3/18/15 stopped arimidex.
3/18/15 progression....Tdm1
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Old 12-04-2013, 10:21 AM   #5
'lizbeth
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Re: Question

Linn65 - let me know what the AFLAC lady says - I'm curious too.

The risk of recurrence is decreased by each treatment, and has a pattern that peaks at different times depending on subtypes. With new FDA approvals for cancer treatment it is tricky to keep up with this.

We can also decrease risk of recurrence with a healthy diet, exercise, meditation, etc. Or increase it with a poor diet, sedentary lifestyle, obesity, pesticides, etc.

I think a practical way of thinking of this is to start counting the point that you became NED as day 1 - which is typically the date of surgery (lumpectomy or mastectomy). If an Axillary Node Dissection is done at a later date that would be Day 1.

Each time you have treatment it decreases your risk of recurrence. So Surgery done - big sigh of relief. Chemo treatment - check, risk reduced, Herceptin treatment - reduced risk, radiation - reduced risk.

Many times it is easier to explain the reduction as linear. But Hopeful's post about a study on subtypes in early cancer showed a peak in her2 recurrences at approx. 20 months and 5 - 7 years.

I'm hoping that these studies bring a fresh look to the management of follow up and that in the next few years we can either receive a vaccine or Herceptin boosters.

I had heard that at the 5 year mark our risk of cancer equals the general population.
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Old 12-04-2013, 01:24 PM   #6
LeahM
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Location: Bethlehem PA
Posts: 395
Re: Question

Herceptin booster! What a concept!
__________________
39 year old wife, mother of one and nurse.
April 20, 2012: Dx Invasive Ductal Carcinoma
April 25, 2012: ER+(5%), PR-, HER2+++
May 10, 2012: BRCA 1,2 Negative
May 23, 2012: MUGA Scan EF 70%
May 31, 2012: B/L Mastectomy. 2/2 nodes removed and CLEAR!! Power Port placed. 2 Drains. 2 Expanders placed
June 5, 2012: Drains OUT! Ahhhh..
June 12, 2012: Final Pathology Report, .8x.3cm tumor. Micromets to 1 node .35mm under cytokeratin staining. Stage 2A. Onc says "you are lucky to have found this early"
July 10, 2012: Started 6 rounds of TCH with weekly H
Sept 5, 2012: MUGA 65%
Sept 20, 2012: CAT scan of brain clear!
Oct 23, 2012: LAST TC! AMEN! Continue Herceptin every three weeks until July 2013.
Nov 19, 2012: Port out!
Dec 5, 2012: Started radiation
Dec. 10, 2012: MUGA 65%
Dec. 13, 2012: Turned 40. BEST BIRTHDAY EVER!
Jan 23, 2013: Last radiation. Told I am NED. Continue Herceptin every three weeks till July 2013.
Jan 29, 2013: Begin 5 years of Tamoxifen.
Feb 28, 2013: CT Scan with Contrast of lungs. 5mm and 4mm nodules of unknown origin. Rescan in 3 months.
Mar 6, 2013: EF 60%
May 8, 2013: Exanders out, implants implanted...abd. lipo and fat moved up. Girls are looking good!
June 3, 2013: CT Scan with Contrast of lungs. Previous nodules gone. New nodules (2mm and 3mm) found. Rescan in 3 months. So sorry I opened this can of worms...
June 11, 2013: EF 60%
June 25, 2013: Last Herceptin. wow...
Aug 20, 2013: Tumor markers within normal limits. Xray to sore left ribs shows no disease or fractures.
Sept 9, 2013: CT of lungs shows no disease. Closing this can of worms and moving on.
Nov 20, 2013: Tumor markers within normal limits. Severe Vit D deficiency, started on prescription Vit. D. Blaming chemo for this.
Feb 2014: Tumor markers within normal limits.
May 2014: Tumor markers within normal limits. Graduated to twice yearly onc appts.
Oct 2014: Tumor markers within normal limits.
May 2015: Tumor markers WNL. Bone density scan fine. Bone scan and xray of ribs shows "something" 4th right rib. Could be healed fracture but if it is healed why does it hurt?
Nov 2015: Tumor markers WNL. Follow up bone scan clear.
Feb 2016: Syncope! WTF? Dizzy too. Brain scan clear, ECHO EF 60%, Halter Monitor shows heart is fine. Viral? I will never know.
June 2016: Tumor markers WNL.
Oct 2016: Stabbing pain right eye. Long story short, trigeminal neuralgia.
Nov 2016 Brain MRI clear.
Jan 2017: Tumor markers WNL, still getting weird pain right rib area, and sometimes right upper chest. Xray x2, Bone Scan, Breast MRI all clear. Scar tissue? Rads. I may never know.
www.onmywaytosurvivorhood.blogspot.com
www.thechemobag.com
www.facebook.com/thechemobag
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Old 12-04-2013, 04:23 PM   #7
chekmark
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Re: Question

I also go from the date the cancer was successfully removed but my oncologist said they start from date of diagnosis. For me it is only a week difference so I celebrate them both.
__________________
DX Sept 30 2010 at the age of 49. Oh crap! 1.5 cm idc, stage 1 grade 3 er/pr+, her2+ no lymph nodes, mastectomy Oct/10. Started 6 rounds of TCH Dec/10 and will continue herceptin until Nov /11 and just started femara.
Stray kitten found my lump while I was playing with it. It is now my pet and my dog is not real happy about that.
Mammo good
last herceptin 11/21/11 YAY
reconstruction 12/09/11
Chapter closed 12/10/11, hopefully, fingers crossed
Bone scan, chest xray, clear
04/27/12 Expander removed, implant put in, ahh sigh of relief, much more comfortable
Sept 30, 2014, 4 years NED
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Old 12-04-2013, 07:47 PM   #8
suzan w
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Re: Question

I started my count the day I had my bilateral mastectomy.
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Suzan W.
age 54 at diagnosis
5/05 suspicious mammogram-left breast
5/05 biopsy-invasive lobular carcinoma with LCIS,8mm tumor,stage 1 grade 2, ER+ PR+ Her2+++
6/14/05 bilateral mastectomy, node neg. all scans neg.
Oncotype DX-high risk
8/05-10/05 4 rounds A/C
10/05 -10/06 1 yr. herceptin
arimidex-5 years
2/14/08 started daily self administered injections..FORTEO for severe osteoporosis
7/28/09 BRCA 1 negative BRCA2 POSITIVE
8/17/09 prophylactic salpingo-oophorectomy
10/15/10 last FORTEOinjection
RECLAST infusion(ostoeporosis)
6/14/10 5 year cancerversary!
8/2010-18%increase in bone density!
no further treatments
Oncologist says, "Go do the Happy Dance"
I say,"What a long strange trip its been"
'One day at a time'
6-14-2015. 10 YEAR CANCERVERSARY!
7-16 to 9-16. Extensive (and expensive) dental work done to save teeth. Damage from osteoporosis and chemo and long term bisphosphonate use
6-14-16. 11 YEAR CANCERVERSARY!!
7-20-16 Prolia injection for severe osteoporosis
2 days later, massive hive outbreak. This led to an eventual dx of Chronic Ideopathic Urticaria, an auto-immune disease from HELL.
6-14-17 12 YEAR CANCERVERSARY!!
still suffering from CIU. 4 hospitilizations in the past year

as of today, 10-31-17 in remission from CIU and still, CANCER FREE!!!
6-14-18 13 YEAR CANCERVERSARY!! NED!!
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Old 12-05-2013, 11:10 AM   #9
jra40
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Posts: 260
Re: Question

I start from my surgery date also. So I am two years out now but still not convinced it's gone. Will I ever feel safe?

On the AFLAC note, I bought the cancer insurance 10 years ago and when I was diagnosed in October of 2010 I was able to collect. Let me tell you that it is the best insurance out there! They paid for my initial diagnosis, $300 every time I sat in the chemo chair, surgery reimbursement, many other pay outs. It is well worth the monthly fee and hope that you can get the coverage when eligible.

Jessica
__________________
11/17/10 - Diagnosed with 4.5cm tumor in right breast, IDC, Stage 2, Nuclear grade 2, ER+ PR+ HER2+
12/13/10 - Lymph node biopsy - negative
12/28/10 - Started neo-adjuvant treatment along with clinical trial with 4 rounds of AC chemo every 3 weeks
3/15/11 - Began weekly Taxol/Herceptin infusions along with 750mg of Tykerb taken by mouth daily
6/28/11 - Finished last cycle of Taxol
7/27/11 - Breast MRI shows tumor has dissolved, remarkable reaction to chemo
8/31/11 - Lumpectomy, Sentinel Node biopsy. Node negative, clear margins, 7mm of cancer left over from chemo.
10/05/11 - Started radiation, 5 days a week for 7 weeks.
11/8/11 - Finished radiation
3/21/12 - Last Herceptin!
3/26/12 - Port removed!
Tamoxifen for 5 years
8/4/15 - Hysterectomy & bilateral salpingo-oophorectomy. Due to large fibroids. No cancer!
8/8/15 - Started Arimidex
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Old 12-06-2013, 12:21 AM   #10
Aussie Girl
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Posts: 260
Re: Question

Officially disease free survival and overall survival are measured from date of diagnosis for research studies. This probably was chosen decades ago and just kept being used.

Some other measures are from date of complete tumor removal. See the link below.

https://wiki.nci.nih.gov/display
/CRF/Outcome+Measures+Glossary

Aussie Girl
__________________
31mm Infiltrating duct carcinoma
Grade 3, ER/PR-, HER2+, Neg Sentinel nodes x 5
49mm field of DCIS
17 June '13: Screen detected impalpable mass, Mammogram neg, US.
25 June '13: Diagnosed after multiple biopsies and MRIs
28 June '13: Left lumpectomey
4 July '13: Left Mastectomy
12 August '13: Commenced TCH chemo
Mid December '13 : TCH finished. Herceptin continuing three weekly.
4 August 2014- Herceptin infusions finished.
END OF THERAPY - YAY!
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Old 12-06-2013, 03:31 PM   #11
roz123
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Re: Question

I guess this is even more muddy for us neoadjuvant girls

Jessica - 3 years out is a milestone for her2's
__________________
diagnosed aug/11
right breast IDC 2.2 cm LVI
neoadjuvant fecx3, tax and her x3
surgery -pCR 0/2 nodes
25 rads
herceptin x18
tamox
prophy bi-msx with TE's oct 15/12
LD flap reconstruction (PM me if you want the details)
zoladex shots monthly until SOFT studies come out
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