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Diet and Nutrition By popular demand our nutritional message board. This board will be monitored by a Registered RD who is certified in oncology by the American Dietetic Association

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Old 08-03-2015, 07:53 PM   #1
Heathcliff4
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Ever Expanding Waist line

So, I read through some older posts on here and many of us complain about this weight gain that commonly happens after chemo and while on AI or tamoxifen. I am taking zolodex for ovarian suppression as well.

It seems as if the people who have had the best results are those who have gone to endocrinologists and actually gotten some type of medication to help stabilize their sugar intake or other issues. Should I consider asking my Oncologist for a referral? I have gone up almost 2 dress sizes in less than a year. I have cut back calories, upped my exercise, etc. I've always been fit and active and able to maintain my weight. Not liking this new situation.

Thanks,

Kathryn
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Kathryn Ellman

8/2013 Diagnosed age 42 with boys aged 2.5 and 6, Stage 11b, 1 cm her2+++, 30% ER positive, 5% PR positive, Rt Breast. Also DCIS in second spot of rt breast, high grade.
9/2013 Bilateral mastectomy, 3 nodes positive
10/13 Started AC/TH, Perjeta and Herceptin
1/14 Finished Chemo
3/14 Radiation, 5 weeks
4/14 Started Tamoxifen
6/14 Discontinued Tamoxifen due to extreme joint pain, exhaustion and depression
6/14 Started Exemestane and Zolodex shots to suppress ovaries
11/14 Finished Herceptin
11/14 Discontinued Exemestane due to similar side effects as Tamoxifen.
1/15 Reconstruction
3/15 CT Scan (routine) shows possible liver mets.
3/15 PET/CT scan shows no mets - huge sigh of relief
4/15 Began Letrozole. Knee and hip joint discomfort but minimal. Otherwise, knocking on wood - so far, so good!
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Old 08-04-2015, 05:25 AM   #2
Juls
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Re: Ever Expanding Waist line

I have been gaining weight over last few months with no change to diet. On discussion with my Oncology Nurse 6 weeks ago - she tells me that its due to Letrozole, "it slows your metabolism"! First I had heard of this & I have been on it 20 months.
This added to the joint stiffness is not great.
I have started taking glucosamine & vit D for stiffness & looks like more exercise is the next thing to do!!
Not going to rock the boat & change anything though as (as you say) so far, so good!
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Old 08-05-2015, 04:42 PM   #3
donocco
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Re: Ever Expanding Waist line

I wonder if Metformin say 500mg twice daily might have an effect on weight. Even if it doesnt, it is worthj taking because of its anti-cancer effect on cancer stem cells. Speak with your oncologists.

Paul
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Old 08-06-2015, 04:46 PM   #4
Juls
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Re: Ever Expanding Waist line

Hi Paul
Thank you for info. I have heard of metformin and cancer but don't know very much about it so will do some research. Not sure how receptive Dr will be!
Juls
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Old 08-08-2015, 06:49 PM   #5
Heathcliff4
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Re: Ever Expanding Waist line

Thanks Paul. My oncology nurse said, "Work out 2x as much and join weight watchers." I'll talk to them about the met form from a anti-cancer standpoint. I have found that most doctors expect you to just live with consequences of treatment rather than to continue to treat the never-ending changes to the body.
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Kathryn Ellman

8/2013 Diagnosed age 42 with boys aged 2.5 and 6, Stage 11b, 1 cm her2+++, 30% ER positive, 5% PR positive, Rt Breast. Also DCIS in second spot of rt breast, high grade.
9/2013 Bilateral mastectomy, 3 nodes positive
10/13 Started AC/TH, Perjeta and Herceptin
1/14 Finished Chemo
3/14 Radiation, 5 weeks
4/14 Started Tamoxifen
6/14 Discontinued Tamoxifen due to extreme joint pain, exhaustion and depression
6/14 Started Exemestane and Zolodex shots to suppress ovaries
11/14 Finished Herceptin
11/14 Discontinued Exemestane due to similar side effects as Tamoxifen.
1/15 Reconstruction
3/15 CT Scan (routine) shows possible liver mets.
3/15 PET/CT scan shows no mets - huge sigh of relief
4/15 Began Letrozole. Knee and hip joint discomfort but minimal. Otherwise, knocking on wood - so far, so good!
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Old 10-06-2015, 08:10 AM   #6
Juls
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Re: Ever Expanding Waist line

Hi Paul

Forgot to say that I asked Onc. about Metformin. She doesn't prescribe it but has patients who get prescription through GP. Don't quite know what to make of this! Also asked about Ibuprofen and Aspirin. She thought aspirin might be worthwhile but not sure about Ibuprofen. Maybe her middle name should be "non-committal".
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Old 10-06-2015, 11:58 AM   #7
donocco
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Re: Ever Expanding Waist line

Juls

Go through the GP and try to get the Metformin. It makes sense and the drug is usually pretty safe as long
as you have good renal function.

The use of drugs like aspirin and Ibuprofen is theoretical but it makes sense. These drugs inhibit Cyclo-oxygenase enzyme and this enzyme is very active in cancer progression. The more advanced and aggressive the cancer, their will be more Cyclo-oxygenase Enzyme that can be stained in the cancer cells.

One Caveat. If you are on chemo, drugs like Aspirin and Ibuprofen can lower fever and this could mask an infection. Always speak with your doctor.

Im not sure if the low dose 81mg Aspirin could lower fever. Ill do some investigating and see what comes up

Paul
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Old 10-06-2015, 12:45 PM   #8
Juls
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Re: Ever Expanding Waist line

Hi Paul
Will ask GP.
Regarding aspirin - some reports suggest taking children's aspirin. No idea what the dosage is though!
Ibuprofen seems to be the drug of choice for everything else! They give us large boxes of it without question!!
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Old 10-06-2015, 12:46 PM   #9
Juls
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Re: Ever Expanding Waist line

Hi Paul
Will ask GP.
Regarding aspirin - some reports suggest taking children's aspirin. No idea what the dosage is though!
Ibuprofen seems to be the drug of choice for everything else! They give us large boxes of it without question!!
Juls
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Old 10-07-2015, 09:04 AM   #10
SpitFire
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Smile Re: Ever Expanding Waist line

Just giving my 2 cents about the weight gain/loss. If you have a low temperature, you have a low metabolism. Eating less and exercising more will not work. You can't starve yourself and and force yourself to overexercise and expect to be healthy. Context is everything. Blood sugar levels are very important too. I think that had something to do with my cancer. Here are some links that you might want to look into for starters.

http://180degreehealth.com/blog/
http://www.scottabel.com/
http://scoobysworkshop.com/
http://eatmore2weighless.com/the-met...m-reset-guide/
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FISH 6.86, Grade 2 (3,2,1), 10-15% Proliferation Rate 4.4cm
9/2013 Port Placement, Sentinal Node Biopsy 1/2 Nodes Positive having no extracapsular extension present
Stage IIb
9/2013 TCH
10/2013 TCHP
1/2014 End chemo!
2/2014 Lumpectomy Complete Response
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Old 10-07-2015, 11:43 AM   #11
donocco
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Re: Ever Expanding Waist line

Juls

The dosage of childrens aspirin is 81mg. It was formulated to lower fever in infants and young children. The dosage is probably too low to lower fever in an adult. I am concerned about over the counter medicines lowering fever in people on chemo and masking a poissible infection.

They dont use aspirin in children less than 18 because of the fear of Reyes syndrome which seems to be associated with flu patients taking Aspirin.

I read somewhere that Naproxen (Aleve) will not lower the fever of a chemo patient who has an infection but will lower the fever that can be associated with having certain cancers (lymphomas I believe). Ill review this as it doesnt make sense to me but Im pretty sure it is what I read.

As far as young children and Aspirin and Reyes syndrome here is a point that may be of interest. Pepto
Bismol is basically a form of Aspirin (Bismuth Subsalicylate) and also should be avoided in young children.
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Old 10-07-2015, 01:53 PM   #12
Juls
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Re: Ever Expanding Waist line

Hi Paul
Just on H, P and Femara. Thought it might be worth taking aspirin as I read a report about inflammation and cancer & how it might be beneficial.
Thank you again!
Take care
Juls
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Old 10-09-2015, 03:19 PM   #13
donocco
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Re: Ever Expanding Waist line

Juls

Ill check what dosage of aspirin you need for an anti-inflammatory effect.
Im not sure low dose aspirin will do this. You need an asprin dose large enough to inhibit
Cyclo-oxygenase type 2. Low dose aspirin inhibits thromboxane. Not sure about Cyclo-2

paul
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Old 10-09-2015, 04:20 PM   #14
Juls
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Re: Ever Expanding Waist line

Paul

OK - Thanks again!

Juls
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Old 10-11-2015, 04:43 PM   #15
donocco
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Re: Ever Expanding Waist line

Juls
You are welcome. I ordered a book about Aspirin from Amazon (not aspirin)Maybe it will give me references about specific aspirin dosages and specific effects

Paul

Last edited by donocco; 10-11-2015 at 04:44 PM.. Reason: mispelling
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Old 10-12-2015, 09:18 PM   #16
donocco
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Re: Ever Expanding Waist line

I received the book on Aspirin and got the info I needed. Low dose aspirin (81mg) will not relieve headache in adults so I doubt it would lower the temperature. Doses of 325mg-to 65mg are needed for temperature lowering.

Its paradoxical but reports indicate that daily 81mg of aspirin can significantly lower the rate of colon cancer. Also 325mg Aspirin taken every other day is effective. If you take this dose every other day and have a fever it will show for sure on the days you are not taking the Aspirin. I doubt one 325mg Aspirin dose could lower fever all day. Still talk with your doctor about any dosage of daily aspirin because of the effect on blood clotting and possible Gastrointestinal bleed.

Paul
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Old 10-13-2015, 04:06 AM   #17
Juls
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Re: Ever Expanding Waist line

Hi Paul
Just read an article in Independent.co.uk about aspirin. Report suggests 75g a day worth taking for prevention but they are not sure if worth taking when you have cancer! Apparently studies not done because drug out of patent & no funding. I'm reading this as no money to be made!!
Not sure how to add link to report but it is at:-
independent.co.uk/life-style/health-and-families/features/aspirin-can-protect-against-cancer
It's worth a read
Thanks again
Juls
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Old 10-13-2015, 11:18 AM   #18
donocco
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Re: Ever Expanding Waist line

Juls

I agree with you about the money thing. There are things Im hesitant to say. There is a drug called Movantik. Im pretty sure that is the drug. Whatever the name, its use is in constipation induced by using opioids for pain. Of course opioids are Morphine,
Dilaudid etc.

Cancer can be a painful disease and opioids are appropriately used. No person using these drugs for severe pain gets addicted in the true meaning of the word.

The worst side effect of say Oxycontin is the severe constipation. The word constipation may seem like a joke word to some people but the suffering induced by constipation in cancer patients on long term Opiate therapy is far from a laughing matter.

So now we have Movantik, a God- send for cancer patients
on chronic Morphine. Not so fast. The FDA approval specifically states Movantik is FDA approved for non cancer induced opiate constipation. Why on earth would the FDA specifically say "non cancer" when its the cancer patients who need the medicne the most.

I think I know, but Im not going to write a book on this. Ill give you one fact. Obviously the clause "for non cancer opiate induced
constipation is going to save the insurance companies a lot of money. So the question becomes "If this is true (and it is, if you have cancer and have Morphine indued constipation, the insurance company wont pay for Movantiks use saying in the rejection letter " It has been FDA approved only for non cancer Morphine induced constipation.

The question becomes why is the FDA concerned about the finances of the Health Insurance Companies? Ill let someone else answer.

Getting back to Aspirin, 81mg a day, talk with your Oncologist. In theory it could be useful as the Cyclo-oxygenase enzyme is very active in cancer. It may do some good and is unlikely to do harm as long as you are under a doctors care.

Paul

PS I believe in Europe Movantik is being used to treat opiate induced constipation. The FDAs limited approval makes no logical sense unless you are thinking less about patient care and more about money that isnt even yours.
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Old 10-13-2015, 12:32 PM   #19
donocco
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Re: Ever Expanding Waist line

Juls

I thought of something else. In theory 81mg of Aspirin daily (or higher, say 325mg) should put every cancer patient in remission because of the Cyclo-oxygenase inhibition. Of course this wouldnt happen. Cancer cells are very adept at sneaking around chemical blockages.

Still, the day by day idea that you are taking something that should at least theoretically help cancer could be a psychological uplift. A good frame of mind inreases the activity of the immune system. The main danger of daily Aspirin is GI bleed even with low dose Aspirin. This is why you would have to be monitored by a doctor even though Aspirin is OTC

Paul
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Old 10-13-2015, 12:49 PM   #20
Juls
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Re: Ever Expanding Waist line

Hi Paul
Think it might be worth taking. Will mention to my Onc. again but she will probably just say take if you want!
Thanks again!
Juls
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