The traditional diet of Greece and cancer.

[julierene]

I guess one of my main concerns is that we don't know WHAT diet does to our gene expression. We are so on the edge of what diet can do. Look at the Beta Carotene study they did. That is one of the reasons I would caution anyone taking megadoses of anything that is supposedly "good" for you. There is such a thing as "too much of a good thing".

[R.B.]

Good point

I wish they would fund trials. An animal trial on skeletal muscle did show high omega six increased HER2 expression. But I agree with you and again wish they would fund trials to sort out these basics.

We do know our ancestors did not have access to large quantities of cheap vegetable oils, trans fats etc. Or necessarily clean water, better all year round food availability, better housing and some fantastic medical advances.

RB

[kat in the delta]

All I know is that Cancer seems to GROW in an ACIDIC BODY. WE need to find out ALL the foods that NEUTRALIZE the acid to make our bodies MORE ALKALINE. You would not believe Which foods they are--example apples and oranges...Who will make the list ? gotta get off --kat in the delta

[kat in the delta]

1. Eat food to make our bodies more alkaline.

2. get rid of the magnetic chaos around us

3. Detox our bodies--colon, liver,,,,,etc

4. Learn to deal or get rid of stress

Really all of these can make our bodies acidic which we want to REVERSE-kat in the delta

rsvp what do YOU ALL think ??????????

[R.B.]

This is an abstract from an article I saved.

I will try and find the link to it and post it.

Thank you for bringing it up as a subject.

This seems to sum it up plus carbonated drinks, and I wonder about vitamin C unbuffered when used as a preservative etc. I also cannot recall the situation re orange juice etc, which in addition in high quantities is a source of fruit sugars which in excess - all healthy things in moderation. I have started significantly diluting all purchased fruit juices.

"fish, meat, poultry, eggs, shellfish, cheese, milk, and cereal grains are net acid producing, whereas fresh fruit, vegetables, tubers, roots, and nuts are net base producing. Legumes yield near-zero mean acid values. Salt is net acid producing because of the chloride ion."



“fish, meat, poultry, eggs, shellfish, cheese, milk, and cereal grains are net acid producing, whereas fresh fruit, vegetables, tubers, roots, and nuts are net base producing. Legumes yield near-zero mean acid values. Salt is net acid producing because of the chloride ion. …As a result, healthy adults consuming the standard US diet sustain a chronic, low-grade pathogenic metabolic acidosis that worsens with age as kidney function declines. Virtually all preagricultural diets were net base yielding because of the absence of cereals and energy-dense, nutrient-poor foods—foods that were introduced during the Neolithic and Industrial Eras and that displaced base-yielding fruit and vegetables ”


I hope this helps a little.

RB

[Mary Anne in TX]

I did a google search of alkaline & acid foods and found some charts that were really good, but on some items them differed! It really did help though! I'll keep reading them to find the ones that most often agree!
Watching what I eat has helped me so much these past 10 months!

[R.B.]

Mary Anne.

If you find some particularly interesting ones could you post the links.

Many thanks

RB

[Mary Anne in TX]

http://www.thewolfeclinic.com/acidalkfoods.html
Here is one chart that is easy to read and fairly complete.

http://www.liferesearchuniversal.com/acid.html
Here is one other that is easy to use.

Now, I just have to do it!
mary anne

[kat in the delta]

Thanks for looking us the info on foods--WE all need foods that Neutralize the acid in our bodies because cancer and most diseases love to live in an acidic body. I found that you can replace reg.salt with Sea Salt which is more alkaline(NONacid).
What about MILK----
Cancer craves SUGAR--so refined sugar should be a NO-NO for all of us. I guess someone or all of Us can make a list of Acid forming foods and a list of Foods that neutalize acid
--Any volunteers ??? I cannot stay on net long now......
Which are good site ?? from the Mayo Clinic, or MDAnderson, or Memorial Sloan Kettering Cancer Center or some dietician page or nutrition page.....Let me know what you all find out and we can all help each other ....................kat in the delta

[kat in the delta]

Mary Ann, Those sites you found were both excellant..& don't forget to drink Water--(mineral,spring,purified ??? )&..what other foods are missing? gotta run now...thanks for info for all...kat in the delta

keep looking if you can.......
Also look at what would prevent Magnetic interference with our bodies....We all may need to buy a bracelet or such......
I know that microwaves are NOT good,,,,and Cell Phones.....what else ???
And we need to detox. our bodies of toxins--colon -liver and more.....
To eliminate STRESS is a hard one for me.......really need to run now, but could go on .....kat.

[Mary Anne in TX]

http://www.essense-of-life.com/info/foodchart.htm


Ok, here is a chart that points out the unknown foods that I referred to earlier.
Good charts!

mary anne

[R.B.]

Mary Anne

Thank you for those great links - exellent additions to this thread.

Sugar has the potential to create problems at all sorts of levels, poor digestion, upsetting of the fat metabolism, empty calories....

Sugar sucrose which breaks down into glucose and fructose from memory. It is a huge subject on its own.

It is clear from papers that consumption of refined sugars, particularly above a minimum can potentially have significant negative effects in the body.

Some are suggesting it is in general terms possibly a bigger factor in IBS than gluten etc. It certainly makes thought provoking reading. Good digestion is essential to health. And yes I could do better too.

Here is one link by way of example.

http://www.bashaar.org.il/files/101022005111814.pdf


RB

[kat in the delta]

Help me Robbie,
So is olive oil good or NOT good for you..Can you tell me some common foods and oils that ARE GOOD for you...Then, tell me those that are NOT as good for you
I would appreciate your help.........this has been alot for me to absorb as I just started from the top of this thread...thanks,
KAT

[R.B.]

Well done for making the effort to try and understand this huge subject.

It is as usual complicated, but I will try and deal with the basics.

Olive oil is a complex mix of a lot of fats and chemicals.

This link gives an idea as to the mix of fats it contains. http://www.nutritiondata.com/facts-C00001-01c208D.html
18:1 is likely to be mainly oleic, 18:2 linoleic (omega six) 18:3 linolenic (omega three). So in olive oil you are getting a mix of fats, and mainly mono saturates (1 double bond eg 18:1 - 18 the number of carbons - 1 the number of double bonds.)

Mono saturates are better to cook with as they oxidise less, but add what you need for taste etc at end,

But if you use a lot it is important to rember 10% - 15% of a virgin oil and up to 50% of a processed oil is omega six.

There are also other chemicals in olive oil that are reported to have a benificial effect.

http://www.her2support.org/vbulletin...ight=olive+oil


So in general terms,
- moderation - less is probably more in general terms
- be very aware to add in the omega six it contains in working out approx your three six intake.
- use only quality virgin oils
- remember the body can make omega nines but it is complex and your body may appreciate a helping hand with provision of a little

Every body is different and will metabolise fats differently. If it is a choice becuase you do not tolerate fat or some other reason I would put fish oil first, and include a little olive oil now and then.


This thread may help too

http://www.her2support.org/vbulletin...ight=olive+oil


And this one.

http://www.her2support.org/vbulletin...ight=olive+oil



In general diet terms on diet - there are lots of books many of which cover more or less the same ground. Here are some thoughts but best check out some book at the library if you get time.

- as wide a variety as possible (a green food supplement is a way of getting some things you would not usually include in your diet Green Frog as a make is quite good)
- Green things and lots of them, frozen if fresh is not available spinach, broccoli etc. highly coloured fruit and veg, some dried seaweed.
- Some nuts mixed as much as will fit on your palm.
- Some pulses if your digestion will tolerate them
- Whole grain but in strict moderation and better pre germinated as reportedly easier to digest.
- a little occasional grass fed meat, farm raised chicken, offal etc if you are not vegitarian - corn fed animals have higher level of omega six
- fish including oily - small quick growing are less likely to be polluted sardines, mackerel - but again variety - all fish is good but wild is better.
- a variety of herbs and spices, ginger, curcumin, .....
- cut out vegetable oils except a little flaxseed (do not cook), maybe canola, perillia etc but you must watch the six content and strictly in moderation
- some fish oil to bring your intake of DHA up to about 2 grams a day.

Avoid "processed food" as in manifiactures prepreapred etc as far as is practicable - just because they usually contain vegetable oils etc. or at least read the label first, and regretabl they end up sadly going back on the shelf most times.

Sugar, sugar subsitutes, high salt levels, are very definate avoids.

So between sugars and vegetable oils most processed food is out.

Rhonda's "Cancer Diet" posted on this site is thought provoking.

Some suggest dairy and some say no. For those that tolerate it maybe a tiny bit of butter, maybe yogourt, maybe goats cheese, but small quantities.

You will find your taste changes and previous treats like crisps etc strangely end up tasting less desireable.

Getting ones digestion sorted out is key, which may mean no sugar, avoiding grains which can be difficult to digest for some, (Breaking the Vicious Cycle Elaine Gotterschall - is an interesting book on digestion - but may not be ideal receipies in respect of balancing omega threes and sixes, (high omega six in almonds) and I would have concern about too much honey....) for a bit etc.

Etc.

Do talk to your doctor about significant dietary change.

I hope the above helps. I am afraid beyond the basics you will have to find what suits you.

RB

[R.B.]

Just to put the thread back on the current map for any that may not have seen it.

Diet can and does alter the way you express your genes including BRAC and HER2.

Rhonda breast cancer diet thread in another useful nutritional thread.

RB

[julierene]

I used to read my pH and only once in the first 2 years of reading my monthly pH did I have anything past normal. I had normal pH even when my cancer came back... and just to disprove the pregnancy test theory - I got a negative pregnancy test too... I honestly don't know who comes up with this stuff. But these two tests were a waste of my money. Is there anyone who can show that the pH strips or the pregnancy tests actually WORKED for them?

[StephN]

Another interesting topic. We had a thread going on acid/alkaline when Lyn was here contributing months back. I am sure a search here will turn it up.

I have no experience with those test strips myself, but DO try to stay to the less acid side in my diet. It can be very surprising what foods you think are acid that really do not fall into that category.

Start a new thread with this subject, OK?

P.S. Looks like your tests are coming out negative for active disease - YAY!

[heblaj01]

I have no personal opinion on the validity of the acid/alkaline theory but here is a contrary position by an MD:

http://www.quackwatch.org/01Quackery...SH/coral2.html
Acid/Alkaline Theory of Disease Is Nonsense

I also read somewhere in the distant past that the theory of the acidic environment as enhancing cancer progression was based on the wrong assessment of the cause & effect in the fact that cancer cells release lactic acid ( not the acid causing cancer).

[R.B.]

Just bringing this thread back in case of interest to those new to the site, or with a new interest in diet etc.

The links do emphasise the importance of diet, and even if a tiny bit of use to anyone contribution makes me feel better.

RB

[Heart Sutra]

Hi,

Thought I would look up The Lyon Study, since it was quoted as reducing coronary disease, and cancer mortality.

Alas, I could find no reference to cancer within the study.

Maybe I found the wrong one? Seems like all roads point back to this one study, and it was designed to rate coronary disease recurrance.
The study had flaws. Mainly lack of control of its "control" group, and exceedingly small sample. 300+ each of experimental and control individuals. The diet of either group was assessed once. Less than a third of the control, and less than half of the experimental group, provided dietary data at the final meeting.

The conclusion is that the role of diet is uncertain regarding this particular study of recurrant coronary events(!) Encouraging results were had, but the study was flawed enough to make it no more than interesting...far from conclusive. Again, nothing at all about cancer.

So, maybe I found the wrong study. There was another one based in France by the same name, but it was also a study of coronary illness, and no mention is made of cancer.

There does seem to be quite an interest in diet and cancer links.
There must be more carefully conducted studies somewhere of this topic.

Whenever a study is quoted, it's good to review the source of the study. There are a lot of claims out there...