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Old 06-30-2006, 02:31 AM   #1
R.B.
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The traditional diet of Greece and cancer.

THIS THREAD IS PRIMARILY ABOUT THE THE EVIDENCE THAT EXCESS OMEGA 6 AND LACK OF OMEGA 3S SIGNIFICANTLY INCREASES THE RISK OF BREAST CANCER.

(I apologise for the "shout" but I think this is something worth shouting about - figures as high as a 70% for reduction in BC risk deserve a hearing)

WE NEED 1/2-2% OF CALORIES AS OMEGA 6 1-4 GRAMS FOR A 2000 CALORIE DIET WE EAT 8-13% OF CALORIES.

WE ARE SERIOUSLY OVERLOADING ON OMEGA 6.

THE BIGGEST CULPRIT OF EXCESS OMEGA 6 ARE HIGH OMEGA SIX VEGETABLE OILS,WHICH ARE MOST OF THE COMMON ONES FOUND THROUGHOUT THE FOOD CHAIN.

WE FEED LIVESTOCK ON GRAIN WHICH DISTORTS THEIR OMEGA 3/6 BALANCE BY A FACTOR AS HIGH AS 10 TIMES, AND THAT INCLUDES THEIR PRODUCTS EGGS, AND DAIRY. GRAIN FEEDING ALSO REDUCES ANTIOXIDANTS AND SOME VITAMINS eg K.

WE HAVE DEPLETED THE MINERAL CONTENT OF LIVESTOCK AND VEGETABLES OF MINERALS BY BETWEEN 20% AND 70% IN THE LAST 50 YEARS. http://www.mineralresourcesint.co.uk..._1940_2002.pdf

WE ARE AGAIN SEEING IODINE DEFICIENCIES IN SIGNIFICANT PARTS OF WESTERN POPULATIONS (EG AUSTRALIA 2005).
IODINE HAS A SPECIAL ROLE IN THE BREAST, AND DEFICIENCY MAY HAVE A ROLE IN BREAST CANCER.
EXCELLENT VIDEO http://her2support.org/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=37340
USEFUL PAPER http://www.articlearchives.com/medic...2297945-1.html Iodine and iodide: functions and benefits beyond the thyroid.
By: Rheault, Shana,Olmstead, Stephen,Ralston, Janet,Meiss, Dennis
EXCELLENT SOURCE OF INFORMATION ON IODINE - http://www.iodine4health.com/index.htm


VITAMIN D PLAYS A ROLE IN CANCER PREVENTION. VITAMIN D DEFICIENCIES ARE INCREASING DUE TO LACK OF MODEST SUN EXPOSURE. FACTOR 15 SUNCREAMS BLOCK 90% OF UVB. UVB IS NEEDED TO MAKE VITAMIN D.
EXCELLENT VIDEOS ON VITAMIN D. http://her2support.org/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=37448 and another on melanoma, sunscreen, ozone etc http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eeXtG...layer_embedded and one on the risk of cancer including BC with reductions of risk of up to 80% http://www.uctv.tv/search-details.aspx?showID=15767 .
(Caucasians who have not seen the sun for a while can make up to 50,000 IU of vitamin D in half an hour of full body exposure to sunshine, which suggests to me we were intended to get more than a few hundred units a day.)


AND THIS WILL MAKE YOU THINK ABOUT BEING TOO LIBERAL WITH THE SUNSCREEN
The Chemical Sunscreen Health Disaster http://www.skinbiology.com/toxicsunscreens.html

WE REMOVE OMEGA3S FROM THE FOOD CHAIN BECAUSE THEY DO NOT KEEP.

WE DO NOT EAT ENOUGH LONG CHAIN OMEGA 3. LONG CHAIN OMEGAS 3S ARE FOUND PRIMARILY IN OILY FISH. FISH AND SHELLFISH ARE ALSO GOOD SOURCES OF MINERALS AND IODINE.



I will try and revisit this thread for the first time since I wrote it in the next few days and amend it where my knowledge has moved on. I am removing the numerous appalling spelling errors with the assistance of an online spell checker. I am definitely a little word blind I think, as it is only with the spell checker that the errors stand out, or maybe it is the way I read - anyway my sincere apologies I had no idea there were so many spelling errors.

I have recently (2008) found I had a large jaw abscess which has now been removed. A capped tooth had died and caused an asymptomatic abscess. It must have been there some time, several years I would guess.They found the tooth abscess but not the jaw abscess about a year ago. I had complained about discharges and bad tastes, periodic worries about bad breath to doctors and dentists, but nobody had suggested a jaw abscess, or asked if it had ever been suggested that filling/caps were close to tooth nerves etc. It turns out the abscess had been leeching into the sinuses, which may explain a slightly fuzzy brain, anxiety etc . . . Fuzzy brain may have contributed to the above. It is minor compared with what you all go through, but does emphasise the importance of dental health. I have just had a CT scan, as I am not certain they have yet got all the infection. Update - the CT scan disclosed more infection where I said I believed it was; all of which has taken more than a year. Two further infections, one of which had resulted in a significant area of infected jaw bone, were found (late 2009), and both related to root filled teeth; a subject on their own. In summary all three of my root filled teeth had resulted in bone infection in the jaw.

[Since I started this thread I have written a book (2008) on Omega 6 and 3. It looks at a wide range of health issues including mental health. It only has a short section on breast cancer. It will be updated fairly soon with a simple summary and how to section.

It is called Omega Six The Devils Fat because EXCESS Omega six as well as having huge health implications arguably promotes societal changes in behaviour in the "Seven deadly sins" (extravagance later lust, gluttony, greed, sloth, wrath, envy, and pride - wikipedia). Fish (a source of Omega 3 and minerals) has been promoted in many cultures for 1000s of years. Those following Christian teachings would have eaten fish about 180 day a year. All of which is dealt with in less than a page.

Omega 6 arguably controls our ability to breed and links that ability to the fertility of the environment. Excess Omega 6 and lack of Omega 3, combined with a lack of vitamin D minerals and iodine, is arguably one of the greatest threats to human survival because all these nutrients are essential to brain function, and because excess Omega 6 subtly alters our behaviour towards more male characteristics, including, aggression, impulsiveness, and acquisitiveness as in territoriality, which are all seen in the breeding behaviour of male animals.

These nutrients are equally essential to wider health.

The book is a serious work with over 900 references

www.Omegasixthedevilsfat.com

RB

[added 26th Feb 2010]




More on food fats omega three and six.


RB



ABSTRACT

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/q...=pubmed_docsum

1: Eur J Cancer Prev. 2004 Jun;13(3):219-30. Related Articles, Links
Click here to read
The traditional diet of Greece and cancer.

Simopoulos AP.

The Center for Genetics, Nutrition and Health, 2001 S Street, N.W., Suite 530, Washington, DC 20009, USA. cgnh@bellatlantic.net

The term 'Mediterranean diet', implying that all Mediterranean people have the same diet, is a misnomer. The countries around the Mediterranean basin have different diets, religions and cultures. Their diets differ in the amount of total fat, olive oil, type of meat, wine, milk, cheese, fruits and vegetables; and the rates of coronary heart disease and cancer, with the lower death rates and longer life expectancy occurring in Greece. The diet of Crete represents the traditional diet of Greece prior to 1960. Analyses of the dietary pattern of the diet of Crete shows a number of protective substances, such as selenium, glutathione, a balanced ratio of n-6/n-3 essential fatty acids (EFA), high amounts of fibre, antioxidants (especially resveratrol from wine and polyphenols from olive oil), vitamins E and C, some of which have been shown to be associated with lower risk of cancer, including cancer of the breast. Epidemiological studies and animal experiments indicate that n-3 fatty acids exert protective effects against some common cancers, especially cancers of the breast, colon and prostate. Many mechanisms are involved, including suppression of neoplastic transformation, cell growth inhibition, and enhanced apoptosis and anti-angiogenicity, through the inhibition of eicosanoid production from n-6 fatty acids; and suppression of cyclooxygenase 2 (COX-2), interleukin 1 (IL-1) and IL-6 gene expression by n-3 fatty acids. Recent intervention studies in breast cancer patients indicate that n-3 fatty acids, and docosahexaenoic acid (DHA) in particular, increase the response to chemopreventive agents. In patients with colorectal cancer, eicosapentaenoic acid (EPA) and DHA decrease cell proliferation, and modulate favourably the balance between colonic cell proliferation and apoptosis. These findings should serve as a strong incentive for the initiation of intervention trials that will test the effect of specific dietary patterns in the prevention and management of patients with cancer.

Publication Types:More on food fats omega three and six.

Last edited by R.B.; 07-20-2014 at 03:23 PM.. Reason: Update
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Old 06-30-2006, 02:41 AM   #2
R.B.
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A related article


http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/q...=pubmed_DocSum


1: Prostaglandins Leukot Essent Fatty Acids. 1999 May-Jun;60(5-6):421-9. Related Articles, Links

Evolutionary aspects of omega-3 fatty acids in the food supply.

Simopoulos AP.

The Center for Genetics, Nutrition and Health, Washington, DC 20009, USA. Lcgnh@bellatlantic.net

Information from archaeological findings and studies from modern day hunter-gatherers suggest that the Paleolithic diet is the diet we evolved on and for which our genetic profile was programmed. The Paleolithic diet is characterized by lower fat and lower saturated fat intake than Western diets; a balanced intake of omega-6 and omega-3 essential fatty acids; small amounts of trans fatty acids, contributing less than 2% of dietary energy; more green leafy vegetables and fruits providing higher levels of vitamin E and vitamin C and other antioxidants than today's diet and higher amounts of calcium and potassium but lower sodium intake. Studies on the traditional Greek diet (diet of Crete) indicate an omega-6/omega-3 ratio of about 1/1. The importance of a balanced ratio of omega-6mega-3, a lower saturated fatty acid and lower total fat intake (30-33%), along with higher intakes of fruits and vegetables leading to increases in vitamin E and C, was tested in the Lyon Heart study. The Lyon study, based on a modified diet of Crete, confirmed the importance of omega-3 fatty acids from marine and terrestrial sources, and vitamin E and vitamin C, in the secondary prevention of coronary heart disease, and cancer mortality.

Publication Types:

* Review


PMID: 10471132 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]
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Old 06-30-2006, 02:44 AM   #3
R.B.
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http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/q...=pubmed_docsum



A related article same author

1: Biomed Pharmacother. 2002 Oct;56(8):365-79. Related Articles, Links

The importance of the ratio of omega-6/omega-3 essential fatty acids.

Simopoulos AP.

The Center for Genetics, Nutrition and Health, Washington, DC 20009, USA. cgnh@bellatlantic.net

Several sources of information suggest that human beings evolved on a diet with a ratio of omega-6 to omega-3 essential fatty acids (EFA) of approximately 1 whereas in Western diets the ratio is 15/1-16.7/1. Western diets are deficient in omega-3 fatty acids, and have excessive amounts of omega-6 fatty acids compared with the diet on which human beings evolved and their genetic patterns were established. Excessive amounts of omega-6 polyunsaturated fatty acids (PUFA) and a very high omega-6/omega-3 ratio, as is found in today's Western diets, promote the pathogenesis of many diseases, including cardiovascular disease, cancer, and inflammatory and autoimmune diseases, whereas increased levels of omega-3 PUFA (a low omega-6/omega-3 ratio) exert suppressive effects. In the secondary prevention of cardiovascular disease, a ratio of 4/1 was associated with a 70% decrease in total mortality. A ratio of 2.5/1 reduced rectal cell proliferation in patients with colorectal cancer, whereas a ratio of 4/1 with the same amount of omega-3 PUFA had no effect. The lower omega-6/omega-3 ratio in women with breast cancer was associated with decreased risk. A ratio of 2-3/1 suppressed inflammation in patients with rheumatoid arthritis, and a ratio of 5/1 had a beneficial effect on patients with asthma, whereas a ratio of 10/1 had adverse consequences. These studies indicate that the optimal ratio may vary with the disease under consideration. This is consistent with the fact that chronic diseases are multigenic and multifactorial. Therefore, it is quite possible that the therapeutic dose of omega-3 fatty acids will depend on the degree of severity of disease resulting from the genetic predisposition. A lower ratio of omega-6/omega-3 fatty acids is more desirable in reducing the risk of many of the chronic diseases of high prevalence in Western societies, as well as in the developing countries, that are being exported to the rest of the world.

Publication Types:

* Review


PMID: 12442909 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

Last edited by R.B.; 10-26-2008 at 02:03 PM..
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Old 06-30-2006, 02:53 AM   #4
R.B.
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http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/q...=pubmed_docsum


1: Poult Sci. 2000 Jul;79(7):961-70. Related Articles, Links

Human requirement for N-3 polyunsaturated fatty acids.

Simopoulos AP.

The Center for Genetics Nutrition and Health, Washington, DC 20009, USA. cgnh@bellatlantic.net

The diet of our ancestors was less dense in calories, being higher in fiber, rich in fruits, vegetables, lean meat, and fish. As a result, the diet was lower in total fat and saturated fat, but contained equal amounts of n-6 and n-3 essential fatty acids. Linoleic acid (LA) is the major n-6 fatty acid, and alpha-linolenic acid (ALA) is the major n-3 fatty acid. In the body, LA is metabolized to arachidonic acid (AA), and ALA is metabolized to eicosapentaenoic acid (EPA) and docosahexaenoic acid (DHA). The ratio of n-6 to n-3 essential fatty acids was 1 to 2:1 with higher levels of the longer-chain polyunsaturated fatty acids (PUFA), such as EPA, DHA, and AA, than today's diet. Today this ratio is about 10 to 1:20 to 25 to 1, indicating that Western diets are deficient in n-3 fatty acids compared with the diet on which humans evolved and their genetic patterns were established. The n-3 and n-6 EPA are not interconvertible in the human body and are important components of practically all cell membranes. The N-6 and n-3 fatty acids influence eicosanoid metabolism, gene expression, and intercellular cell-to-cell communication. The PUFA composition of cell membranes is, to a great extent, dependent on dietary intake. Therefore, appropriate amounts of dietary n-6 and n-3 fatty acids need to be considered in making dietary recommendations. These two classes of PUFA should be distinguished because they are metabolically and functionally distinct and have opposing physiological functions; their balance is important for homeostasis and normal development. Studies with nonhuman primates and human newborns indicate that DHA is essential for the normal functional development of the retina and brain, particularly in premature infants. A balanced n-6/n-3 ratio in the diet is essential for normal growth and development and should lead to decreases in cardiovascular disease and other chronic diseases and improve mental health. Although a recommended dietary allowance for essential fatty acids does not exist, an adequate intake (AI) has been estimated for n-6 and n-3 essential fatty acids by an international scientific working group. For Western societies, it will be necessary to decrease the intake of n-6 fatty acids and increase the intake of n-3 fatty acids. The food industry is already taking steps to return n-3 essential fatty acids to the food supply by enriching various foods with n-3 fatty acids. To obtain the recommended AI, it will be necessary to consider the issues involved in enriching the food supply with n-3 PUFA in terms of dosage, safety, and sources of n-3 fatty acids.

Publication Types:

* Review


PMID: 10901194 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

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Old 06-30-2006, 03:04 AM   #5
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http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/q...=pubmed_docsum

1: Am J Clin Nutr. 1999 Sep;70(3 Suppl):560S-569S. Related Articles, Links
Click here to read
Comment in:

* Am J Clin Nutr. 2004 Mar;79(3):523-4.


Essential fatty acids in health and chronic disease.

Simopoulos AP.

Center for Genetics, Nutrition and Health, Washington, DC 20009 cgnh@bellatlantic.net

Human beings evolved consuming a diet that contained about equal amounts of n-3 and n-6 essential fatty acids. Over the past 100-150 y there has been an enormous increase in the consumption of n-6 fatty acids due to the increased intake of vegetable oils from corn, sunflower seeds, safflower seeds, cottonseed, and soybeans. Today, in Western diets, the ratio of n-6 to n-3 fatty acids ranges from approximately 20-30:1 instead of the traditional range of 1-2:1. Studies indicate that a high intake of n-6 fatty acids shifts the physiologic state to one that is prothrombotic and proaggregatory, characterized by increases in blood viscosity, vasospasm, and vasoconstriction and decreases in bleeding time. n-3 Fatty acids, however, have antiinflammatory, antithrombotic, antiarrhythmic, hypolipidemic, and vasodilatory properties. These beneficial effects of n-3 fatty acids have been shown in the secondary prevention of coronary heart disease, hypertension, type 2 diabetes, and, in some patients with renal disease, rheumatoid arthritis, ulcerative colitis, Crohn disease, and chronic obstructive pulmonary disease. Most of the studies were carried out with fish oils [eicosapentaenoic acid (EPA) and docosahexaenoic acid (DHA)]. However, alpha-linolenic acid, found in green leafy vegetables, flaxseed, rapeseed, and walnuts, desaturates and elongates in the human body to EPA and DHA and by itself may have beneficial effects in health and in the control of chronic diseases.

Publication Types:

* Review


PMID: 10479232 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

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Old 06-30-2006, 08:42 AM   #6
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Talking Wow!

This is all Greek to me! What would be most helpful to me is recipies, and foods that are especially beneficial and should be emphasized in my diet.

Currently I go to Farmer's Market as often as possible, at least once and sometimes twice a week. The only problem is that foods there are entirely seasonal. By January it's onions and chard.

Right now I am consuming blueberries like a bear. I ate big bowls of broccoli all winter. Right now it's salad with the following olive oil dressing:

Minced garlic
Salt
Pepper
Curry Powder
Cayenne Pepper
Pinch of ground Cloves
Dash of tabasco
Extra virgin locally grown olive oil
Lemon juice (from the tree in my backyard)
Balsamic vinegar
Dijon mustard as an emulsifier

I read on Web MD that olive oil fights HER 2 and also it just tastes so good, although I know it does pack some calories. I try and eat half an avocado daily, fattening, yes, but also a good cancer fighter.

Right now it's salad, salad, salad and my husband eats lunch out daily, yesterday it was a BLT for him!

I am trying to lose a few pounds, stay off the sugar, etc. and I do believe eating fruits & veggies has helped me live as long as I have. That & Herceptin/Arimidex!

Thanks.

Mary
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Old 06-30-2006, 09:17 AM   #7
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Dear RB,

I think you are a genius in your own right and I am grateful for your laser focus on omega 3's and 6's. Clearly, the ratio of 3's to 6's is significant. For those of us who are intellectually challenged in this area; would you consider giving us a plain English summary of what you are gleaning from these studies;and also it would help me to know what some good food sources of 3's and 6's are. Finally, do you know of any food source where the 3's and 6's are found together and optimally balanced for people with auto immune problems and cancer?
Love Kim from CT
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Old 06-30-2006, 09:29 AM   #8
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Smile Kim...

here's a list of omega 3

http://www.whfoods.com/genpage.php?t...trient&dbid=84

AND a list of omega 6

http://www.annecollins.com/dietary-fat/omega-6-fats.htm

AND an article on green tea and autoimmune disorders

http://www.nutraingredients.com/news...reen-tea-could

Rhonda
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2/1/13...8 year Cancerversary and I am "perfect" (at least where cancer is concerned;)


" And in the end, it's not the years in your life that count. It's the life in your years."- Abraham Lincoln

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Old 06-30-2006, 11:07 AM   #9
al from Canada
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RB,

For those of us on a non-junk food diet, cook only with olive oil, do you think that it is still neccessary to suppliment O-3? If so, how much?
Also, we all really appreciate the work you are doing to benefit all of us in this area, as I personally feel that diet is a hugh part of the problem!.
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Old 06-30-2006, 03:36 PM   #10
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Thank you for your kind comments and interest.

Thanks Rhonda for the links. The Mateljan site was particularly well laid out, and from a quick skim is informative.

Re the questions as to how much - as usual no easy answer but in essence from what I have read so far

1...**** BALANCE the Omega 3 and 6 plant based fats with a ratio between 1:1 and 1:2. We only need between 1/2 - 2% of calories (Issfal suggests 2-3%). There is not a simple way to do that except look up the fat content of the foods you eat and try and estimate your intake. The vast majority of processed food will contain vegetable fat even some processed dried fruit! - So check lablels.

2. Get at least a gram and up to 3 grams combined total of the long chain Omega 3s DHA and EPA from oily fish or fish oil. Women and men have different needs it appears. Women make DHA better than men and need more of it. (Our shore dwelling ancestors would have eaten more Omega 3 than 6 as fish and shell fish are much higher in Omega 3 than 6.)

Fish and shell fish are a good source of minerals and iodine.

Minerals in food have dropped by between 20 and 70% due to soil depletion in the last 50 years.

Do remember to have a look at the content of fish oil as it contains a whole range of fats which may help inform you other intake. Check the A and D content of fish oil and make sure you are neither overloading or getting too little. Some manufacturers remove D or A or both.

If you feel it appropriate to take GLA remember it usually comes with omega six and work that into the balancing act. As usual looking for a food source might be a better option. I am less certain as to where GLA sits in the pecking order, and less is written on the series one products and the extent to which the body will produce GLA.

http://cpmcnet.columbia.edu/dept/ihn...lides_2005.pdf

This link provides some graphs which seem to suggest 2 grams of DHA a day is the level at which take off drops off, BUT I would guess it would depend on what the omega six intake was, the composition of stored fats, individual metabolism etc. ( about 4 to 5 tps of a reasonable quality fish oil or equivalent in algae source). I am taking 2grams as a minimum some times more and just trying to assess how I feel changes in body function, fitness, weight, liver function etc.

I am afraid that there are simply no absolute answers and the research has not been done.

Side effects are limited but do exist at higher doses so check with your advisor particularly if on medication. Blood thinning is the most common issue.

Other than the fish oil, use maybe a little olive oil or other low Omega 6 oil maybe 1 tablespoon a day. Moderate use of grass fed butter is fine (vit A D K etc). I do not use any oils margarines etc, but it is very much a personal choice. In hunter gatherer terms our access to omega six was limited so my guess is less is better eg give up margarine etc. There are no easy answers and until they trial outcomes v changes in adipose fat content in a sufficient number of people we simply will not know.

I hope that helps I am sorry I cannot be more specific at this time.

I will post separately on sources of omega three and six in so far as I can.

RB

Last edited by R.B.; 06-28-2009 at 04:32 AM.. Reason: Update
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Old 06-30-2006, 03:45 PM   #11
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RB thanks for posting this info

I just wanted to say I read your posts with interest - I really appreciate your efforts to convey this complex information in ways we can easily "digest" (pun intended). For those of us who have neither the time nor intellectual focus to dive into this pool, it's great to have such an awesome researcher on the team!
Thanks!
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June 2002 extensive hi grade DCIS (pre-cancer-stage 0, clean sentinal node) Mastectomy/implant - no chemo, rads. "cured?"
9/2004 Diag: Stage IV extensive liver mets (!) ER/PR- Her2+++
10/04-3/05 Weekly Taxol/Carboplatin/Herceptin , complete response!
04/05 - 4/07 Herception every 3 wks, Continue NED
04/07 - recurrence to liver - 2 spots, starting tykerb/avastin trial
06/07 8/07 10/07 Scans show stable, continue on Tykerb/Avastin
01/08 Progression in liver
02/08 Begin (TDM1) trial
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02/09 Continue NED
02/10 Continue NED. 5/10 9/10 Scans NED 10/10 Scans NED
12/10 Scans not clear....4/11 Scans suggest progression 6/11 progression confirmed in liver
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03/12 3rd times the charm? AKT trial

5/12 Scan shows reduction! 7/12 More reduction!!!!
8/12 Whoops...progression...trying for Perjeta/Herceptin (plus some more nasty chemo!)
9/12 Start Perjeta/Herceptin, chemo on hold due to infection/wound in leg, added on cycle 2 &3
11/12 Poops! progression in liver, Stop Perjeta/Taxo/Herc
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Old 06-30-2006, 03:57 PM   #12
karenann
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R.B. and Rhonda,

Thanks a million for all of the information. I think I am finally, "getting it" when it comes to food and supplements.

Karen
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Old 06-30-2006, 04:52 PM   #13
Barbara H.
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Question Fish oil capsules (question)

I take one fish oil capsule each day. Should they be stored in the refrigerator?
Barbara H.
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Old 06-30-2006, 09:12 PM   #14
Bev
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Hi Rb,

Always read your posts but I like to cause trouble.

When I look at historical precedence, I have to wonder. 100 years ago, I would not have made it through childbirth. I would not have made it to later become a BC statistic.

Grew up with Meditteranean Diet, alas on the wrong side of the Adriatic. I don't know any answers. I just want to help on your research path. BB
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Old 07-01-2006, 06:03 AM   #15
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Thanks for the kind comments.



RE Progress.

I am not arguing with progress in medicine, access to good food and clean water, shelter, a warm space to live and sleep, better working conditions etc. although many in the world are not so lucky.

I applaud and am amazed by the advances in medicine, including greater understanding and knowledge. Staggering things have been achieved and there is huge future potential.

But are those reasons for not keeping the basics in view, as well as doing the more exotic financially rewarding research. - If these papers based on the research and work of others are well founded, and it looks increasingly as if they are, the Omega 3:6 fats imbalance is responsible for a chunk of western disease (or at least removal of the ability to delay them to the end of life). Is it justifiable to ignore the basics and start 12 year olds off in life with the early forms of vascular disease, depression, ADHD etc because we are ignoring prevention in favour of the development of commercial solutions.

Is it not time to find another funding model that ensures funding for research but not at a cost of ignoring the basics, because ignoring the basic creates increased commercial markets for medical drugs.

Ignoring the basics to effectively maintain ill health in order to create a market to provide funding for more research seems to me a dangerous path.

The researchers in this field I would guess must have coffee room discussions in this vein

RB

Last edited by R.B.; 06-28-2009 at 04:34 AM..
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Old 07-01-2006, 06:18 AM   #16
R.B.
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Re storage - fridge or cool place and do not store for too long.

DO NOT CONFUSE PLEASE !

Please do note that the graphs above are looking at DHA which is a component of fish oil. ONE gram of fish oil will only contain maybe 100mg DHA (guess) (A teaspoon holds about 5grams, so contains about 500 mg. of DHA) In fish oil terms I would guess you are looking at 20 grams a day (4 teaspoons) but you would need to look at the label and contents, as all products are different.

Usually they include antioxidants vit E, etc to prevent oxidisation.

You also need to check the amounts of Vitamin A and D the fish oil contains as they vary tremendously with brands.

From my reading/experience it is cheaper to buy in bottled form. Some of them have almost no taste. The quality of refining has increased hugely, and with quality products the days of fishy repeats all day are long gone. The cost savings at higher dosages are potentially significant for those on tight budgets. I take mine from a teaspoon - no back taste - no repeating etc - less flavour than olive oil (tastes of lemons).

RB

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Old 07-01-2006, 07:34 AM   #17
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Guesswork and out on a limb fish oil-derived {omega}-3 lipid-based emulsions Infusion

This post is out on a limb as I have not seen it suggested any where as cancer treatment adjunct but would have grounds for consideration if one takes the stance that the omega three six balance is relevant.

Thought provoking article.

An interesting area for a trial, or consideration by those running out of options.

One for discussion with your onc????

RB

http://www.jimmunol.org/cgi/content/full/171/9/4837

ABSTRACT from full trial write up

"Potential impact of {omega}-3 fatty acids, as contained in fish oil, on immunological function has been suggested because observations of reduced inflammatory diseases in Greenland Inuit were published. A fish oil-based lipid emulsion has recently been approved for parenteral nutrition in many countries. We investigated the influence of a short infusion course of fish oil-based ({omega}-3) vs conventional ({omega}-6) lipid emulsion on monocyte function. In a randomized design, twelve healthy volunteers received {omega}-3 or {omega}-6 lipid infusion for 48 h, with cross-over repetition of the infusion course after 3 mo. Fatty acid profiles, monocyte cytokine release and adhesive monocyte-endothelium interaction were investigated. Resultant {omega}-6 lipid emulsion increased plasma-free fatty acids including arachidonic acid, whereas the {omega}-3/{omega}-6 fatty acid ratio in monocyte membranes remained largely unchanged. It also caused a tendency toward enhanced monocyte proinflammatory cytokine release and adhesive monocyte-endothelium interaction. In contrast, {omega}-3 lipid emulsion significantly increased the {omega}-3/{omega}-6 fatty acid ratio in the plasma-free fatty acid fraction and in monocyte membrane lipid pool, markedly suppressing monocyte generation of TNF-{alpha}, IL-1, IL-6, and IL-8 in response to endotoxin. In addition, it also significantly inhibited both monocyte-endothelium adhesion and transendothelial monocyte migration, although monocyte surface expression of relevant adhesive molecules (CD11b, CD18, CD49 days, CCR2) was unchanged. Although isocaloric, {omega}-3 and {omega}-6 lipid emulsions exert differential impact on immunological processes in humans. In addition to its nutritional value, fish oil-based {omega}-3 lipid emulsion significantly suppresses monocyte proinflammatory cytokine generation and features of monocyte recruitment."

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Old 07-02-2006, 06:37 AM   #18
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On the general thread and published in NEJM.

http://content.nejm.org/cgi/content/...e2=tf_ipsecsha

Interesting as to levels of supplementation 18grms fish oil (4tps ? assuming 5grms per tps. approx?)

Effect 61% reduction inflammatory factors.

Dependence on omega three. Supplementation stopped so did effect. Washout 2o weeks which is in ball park of other trials I have read (time was for DHA).

No mention of omega six. From what I have read elsewhere lowish and balancing threes and sixes further enhances effects of omega three.

On omega six intake

To particularly watch for

Concentrated plant reproductive vehicles - seeds and nuts (and their oil etc) generally contain significant amounts of omega six, and not many contain much three

Products of herbivores - the fat offal content etc of living things we eat reflect what they eat. So if chickens cattle etc are fed on grain they will have higher omega six which will be concentrated by them in fat offal eggs etc. It is difficult to be definitive is so is more of a "food for thought" than anything else, combined with noting suggestions that those who eat grass fed meat may be less prone to these inflammatory diseases. A whole subject on its own. http://www.nutritiondata.com/facts-B00001-01c20wT.html This is an example for beef, not on the same high level as nuts but still quite a lot of omega six and half as much three, if you are eating a lot of meat. This is a link for chicken liver pan fried. Corn fed? http://www.nutritiondata.com/facts-B00001-01c21sJ.html. The omega threes and sixes are totalled at the end of the column which helps.

Farmed fish. - as above they are what they eat - so high grain etc content will push up omega six content - of course better than some alternatives but it is important to be aware of the different fat profiles of grain fed and wild animals - grain fed animals also have lower vitamin D, and plant antioxidant levels in their fat - feeding fish to fish also does not seem a very productive use of a potentially scarce resource, it takes 4-5 tons of wild fish to grow a ton of farmed fish - time to start farming algae etc.


Nut are excellent sources of all sorts of things but that has to be balanced with the omega six factor if that is in your sights. As previously noted a number of dietary books suggest no more than a palmful about a day.

I cant think of any other "very high" (you get quite a lot in a small or very small portion) omega six sources I have come across but there may be others.

But at the end of the day we are all individual and have to make our own choices.

Please do talk to your advisers about significant dietary changes.

RB


Abstract

We examined whether the synthesis of interleukin-1 or tumor necrosis factor, two cytokines with potent inflammatory activities, is influenced by dietary supplementation with n-3 fatty acids. Nine healthy volunteers added 18 g of fish-oil concentrate per day to their normal Western diet for six weeks. We used a radioimmunoassay to measure interleukin-1 (IL-1 beta and IL-1 alpha) and tumor necrosis factor produced in vitro by stimulated peripheral-blood mononuclear cells. With endotoxin as a stimulus, the synthesis of IL-1 beta was suppressed from 7.4 +/- 0.9 ng per milliliter at base line to 4.2 +/- 0.5 ng per milliliter after six weeks of supplementation (43 percent decrease; P = 0.048). Ten weeks after the end of n-3 supplementation, we observed a further decrease to 2.9 +/- 0.5 ng per milliliter (61 percent decrease; P = 0.005). The production of IL-1 alpha and tumor necrosis factor responded in a similar manner. Twenty weeks after the end of supplementation, the production of IL-1 beta, IL-1 alpha, and tumor necrosis factor had returned to the presupplement level. The decreased production of interleukin-1 and tumor necrosis factor was accompanied by a decreased ratio of arachidonic acid to eicosapentaenoic acid in the membrane phospholipids of mononuclear cells. We conclude that the synthesis of IL-1 beta, IL-1 alpha, and tumor necrosis factor can be suppressed by dietary supplementation with long-chain n-3 fatty acids. The reported antiinflammatory effect of these n-3 fatty acids may be mediated in part by their inhibitory effect on the production of interleukin-1 and tumor necrosis factor.


Source Information

Department of Medicine, New England Medical Center Hospital, Boston, MA.

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Old 07-02-2006, 07:04 AM   #19
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A table of EPA and DHA in fish


http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/gquery/g...cosapentaenoic


And this is the article it comes from

"Practical Applications of Fish Oil ({Omega}-3 Fatty Acids) in Primary Care
Robert Oh, MD

From the Department of Family Medicine, MCHJ-FP, Madigan Army Medical Center, Ft. Lewis, Washington "

http://www.jabfm.org/cgi/content/full/18/1/28#R4

It is more readable than most and deals with arthritis, heart disease etc.

RB

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Old 07-02-2006, 09:40 AM   #20
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Toxic heavy metals and fish oil mecury etc.

If you have questions check the manufacturers web site these trials are general and not specific and buy reputable brands I guess.

These trials below would suggest that as far as mercury etc goes that fish oils are low risk - possibly lower levels than whole fish which is comforting but no reason not to eat the original food source as well.

Little fish in general terms don't live as long and so have lower contaminates.

Big fish shark swordfish are reported as having "higher" levels, so are possibly not the best everyday menu item.

There are also other pollutants eg dioxins etc but the solution is to stop putting them into the environment. They will also be concentrated in land animals etc. However the trial below would suggest that the risks of organochlorines in fish oil are lower that those in fish.

As to species bottom feeders particularly, but other fish as well that come from potentially polluted inland waters or industrial outlet areas to the sea (e.g. Baltic) are reported as containing on average more pollutants.

Many of the heavy metals also have natural sources volcanoes etc but we are adding to them significantly industrial pollution, incineration, fossil fuels, metal production etc. So do amalgam fillings etc - dentists are reported as having higher mercury levels etc. so whilst not good the risk of pollutants has to be kept in perspective in balancing risks and benefits.

So one less thing to worry about may be fish oil.

RB


http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/q...=pubmed_docsum

1: Z Ernahrungswiss. 1989 Mar;28(1):76-83. Related Articles, Links

[Contaminating substances in 22 over-the-counter fish oil and cod liver oil preparations: cholesterol, heavy metals and vitamin A]

[Article in German]

Koller H, Luley C, Klein B, Baum H, Biesalski HK.

Institut fur Physiologische Chemie II, Johannes-Gutenberg-Universitat, Mainz.

Fish oil capsules are increasingly used by self-medicating patients. We studied 22 commercial fish oil and menhaden oil preparations in respect to accompanying substances that could be harmful. The substances measured were: cholesterol as determined by gas liquid chromatography, heavy metals measured by atomic absorption, and vitamin A as determined by high-performance liquid chromatography (HPLC). The contents of cholesterol and heavy metals were in ranges which can be regarded as negligible; the content of vitamin A in menhaden oils, however, was found in amounts which warrant that pregnant women do not exceed the dosage as recommended by the manufacturers.

PMID: 2718527 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]



http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/q...=pubmed_docsum


1: Arch Pathol Lab Med. 2003 Dec;127(12):1603-5. Related Articles, Links
Click here to read
Measurement of mercury levels in concentrated over-the-counter fish oil preparations: is fish oil healthier than fish?

Foran SE, Flood JG, Lewandrowski KB.

Division of Laboratory Medicine, Department of Pathology, Massachusetts General Hospital and Harvard Medical School, Boston, Mass 02114, USA.

CONTEXT: Fish consumption has been associated with a decreased risk of coronary artery disease. Recent studies have illustrated that the high mercury content in cold-water fish may negate the cardiovascular benefits of fish meals. Fish oils have similar antiatherogenic properties to fish, and similar studies should be performed to determine the level of mercury in fish oils. OBJECTIVE: To determine the concentration of mercury in 5 over-the-counter brands of fish oil. RESULTS: The levels of mercury in the 5 different brands of fish oil ranged from nondetectable (<6 microg/L) to negligible (10-12 microg/L). The mercury content of fish oil was similar to the basal concentration normally found in human blood. CONCLUSIONS: Fish are rich in omega-3 fatty acids, and their consumption is recommended to decrease the risk of coronary artery disease. However, fish such as swordfish and shark are also a source of exposure to the heavy metal toxin, mercury. The fish oil brands examined in this manuscript have negligible amounts of mercury and may provide a safer alternative to fish consumption.

PMID: 14632570 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]


http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/q...=pubmed_docsum


1: Arch Pathol Lab Med. 2005 Jan;129(1):74-7. Related Articles, Links
Click here to read
Measurement of organochlorines in commercial over-the-counter fish oil preparations: implications for dietary and therapeutic recommendations for omega-3 fatty acids and a review of the literature.

Melanson SF, Lewandrowski EL, Flood JG, Lewandrowski KB.

Clinical Laboratories Division, Department of Pathology, Brigham and Women's Hospital and Harvard Medical School, Boston, MA, USA.

CONTEXT: The consumption of fish high in omega-3 fatty acids is advocated by the American Heart Association to decrease the risk of coronary artery disease. However, fish contain environmental toxins such as mercury, polychlorinated biphenyls, and organochlorine pesticides, which may negate the beneficial cardiovascular effects of fish meals. Toxin levels vary depending on both the fish source and the specific toxin, and neither farm-raised nor wild fish are toxin free. Fish oil supplements also prevent the progression of coronary artery disease and reduce cardiovascular mortality. However, only sparse data exist on the level of toxins in fish oil. In a previous study we showed that the amount of mercury in 5 over-the-counter brands of fish oil was negligible. OBJECTIVE: To determine the concentrations of polychlorinated biphenyls and other organochlorines in 5 over-the-counter preparations of fish oil. DESIGN: The contents of 5 commercial fish oil brands were sent for organochlorine analysis. RESULTS: The levels of polychlorinated biphenyls and organochlorines were all below the detectable limit. CONCLUSIONS: Fish oil supplements are more healthful than the consumption of fish high in organochlorines. Fish oils provide the benefits of omega-3 fatty acids without the risk of toxicity. In addition, fish oil supplements have been helpful in a variety of diseases, including bipolar disorder and depression.

PMID: 15628911 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

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