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Old 01-12-2013, 01:31 AM   #1
Lani
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Question do antioxidants like vitamin E cause/worsen rather than prevent/fight cancer-- DNA-

researcher and Nobel Prize winner James Watson has published a new article asking just that question

Medscape Medical News > Oncology
Novel Cancer Hypothesis Suggests Antioxidants Are Harmful
Zosia Chustecka
Jan 11, 2013

A new hypothesis that focuses on reactive oxygen species (ROS) proposes that antioxidant levels within cancer cells are a problem and are responsible for resistance to treatment.

The theory destroys any reason for taking antioxidative nutritional supplements, because they "more likely cause than prevent cancer," according to Nobel laureate James Watson, PhD, from Cold Spring Harbor Laboratory, New York.

Dr. Watson, who shared the Nobel prize for unraveling the structure of DNA, regards this theory as being "among my most important work since the double helix," notes a press release from his institution, where he has been director since 1968.

The theory was published online January 8 in Open Biology.

Dr. Watson explains that the vast majority of agents used to directly kill cancer cells, including ionizing radiation, most chemotherapeutic agents, and some targeted therapies, work by generating — either directly or indirectly — ROS that block key steps in the cell cycle.

This generation of ROS creates a hypoxic environment in which cancers cells undergo a transformation from epithelial to mesenchymal cells (EMT).

These transformed cells almost inevitably posses very high amounts of antioxidants, which effectively block the effects of anticancer treatments, Dr. Watson notes. Once a cancer becomes resistant to chemotherapy, it usually is equally resistant to ionizing radiation, he points out.

In addition, these transformed EMT cancer cells generate free-floating mesenchymal cells, which have the flexibility and movement that allows them to metastasize to other body locations (brain, liver, lung). "Only when they have moved do most cancers become life-threatening," Dr. Watson notes.

Interestingly, the widely used antidiabetic drug metformin has been shown to preferentially kill mesenchymal stem cells. "In a still much unappreciated article published 3 years ago," metformin added to chemotherapy "induced prolonged remission if not real cures" in mouse models of cancer ( Cancer Res. 2009;69:7507-7511), Dr. Watson writes. He notes that clinical trials are currently looking to see if adding metformin to chemotherapy provides clinical benefits, but adds that diabetics who have been using metformin regularly have a reduced incidence of many cancers.

Resistance to Therapy From Antioxidants in Cancer Cells

Dr. Watson proposes that anticancer therapies work by generating ROS, which cause apoptosis. However, as cancer cells evolve, they produce antioxidant proteins that block this effect, such as glutathione, superoxide dismutase, catalase, and thioredoxin.

The fact that cancer cells largely driven by RAS and Myc are among the most difficult of cancers to treat could be due to their high levels of ROS-destroying antioxidants, Dr. Watson argues. High antioxidative levels might also explain the effective incurability of pancreatic cancer, he adds.

If this theory is correct, then drugs that lower antioxidant levels within cancer cells would be therapeutic. In fact, the ROS-generating agent arsenic trioxide has been shown to reduce levels of glutathione and thioredoxin. Arsenic trioxide is currently being used to treat promyeloblastic leukemia, but this theory suggests that the drug could be useful in many major cancers.

Nutritional Antioxidants Could Be Harmful

One far-reaching implication of this theory is that antioxidants as nutritional supplements, including beta-carotene, vitamins A, C, and E, and selenium, could be harmful in cancer.

For years, such supplements have been widely hyped for cancer prevention and/or treatment, as has encouragement to eat colorful fruit and berries, which contain antioxidants.

The time has come to seriously ask whether antioxidant use more likely causes than prevents cancer.
However, Dr. Watson warns that recent data strongly hint that much of the untreatability of late-stage cancer might be the result of "its possession of too many antioxidants, [so] the time has come to seriously ask whether antioxidant use more likely causes than prevents cancer."

Many nutritional intervention trials have shown no obvious effectiveness in preventing gastrointestinal cancer or in lengthening mortality, he writes. "In fact, they seem to slightly shorten the lives of those who take them."

Hence, he concludes, "blueberries best be eaten because they taste good, not because their consumption will lead to less cancer."

Very Complex Process

Maurie Markman, MD, national director for medical oncology at the Cancer Treatment Centers of America, who writes the Medscape Markman on Oncology blog, was asked to comment on the theory.

"The importance of the critical relationship between oxidating activity and antioxidants in the normal functioning of cells has been recognized by many investigators, and it is not surprising that this process would be quite relevant in cancer. However, it must be emphasized that this is a very complex process and the balance between these powerful influences at the cellular level is certain to be very carefully controlled. Further, it should be noted that antioxidants are components of our normal diets. Finally, while a provocative concept, it is most unlikely that a simple approach to somehow removing antioxidants from the body will be a useful strategy in cancer management," he explained.

Open Biol. 2013;2:120144. Full text

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Old 01-12-2013, 04:03 AM   #2
michka
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Re: do antioxidants like vitamin E cause/worsen rather than prevent/fight cancer-- DN

Thanks lani. Very interesting. Antioxydants are in a lot of food I like:
vegetables, fruits, green tea and....chocolate and red wine!
__________________
08.2006 3 cm IDC Stage 2-3, HER2 3+ ER+90% PR 20%
FEC, Taxol+ Herceptin, Mastectomy, Radiation, Herceptin 1 year followed by Tykerb 1 year,Aromasin /Faslodex

12.2010 Mets to liver,Herceptin+Tykerb
03.2011 Liver resection ER+70% PR-
04.2011 Herceptin+Navelbine+750mg Tykerb
06.2011 Liver ned, Met to sternum. Added Zometa 09.2011 Cyberknife for sternum
11.2011 Pet clear. Stop Navelbine, continuing on Hercpetin+Tykerb+Aromasin
02.2012 Mets to lungs, nodes, liver
04.2012 TDM1, Ned in 07.2012
04.2015 Stop TDM1/Kadcyla, still Ned, liver problems
04.2016 Liver mets. Back on Kadcyla
08.2016 Kadcyla stopped working. mets to liver lungs bones
09.2016 Biopsy to liver. no more HER2, still ER+
09.2016 CMF Afinitor/Aromasin/ Xgeva.Met to eye muscle Cyberknife
01.2017 Gemzar/Carboplatin/ Ibrance/Faslodex then Taxotere
02.2017 30 micro mets to brain breathing getting worse and worse
04.2017 Liquid biopsy/CTC indicates HER2 again. Start Herceptin with Halaven
06.2017 all tumors shrunk 60% . more micro mets to brain (1mm mets) no symptoms
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Old 01-12-2013, 04:35 AM   #3
Bunty
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Re: do antioxidants like vitamin E cause/worsen rather than prevent/fight cancer-- DN

I wonder if there are implications with Vitamins A, C & E and Herceptin effectiveness? In light of this report which I read earlier this week, and as I'm probably about to re-start chemo again soon, I've stopped taking my A & E supplements - I stopped C years ago!
Cheers Marie
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dx Dec 2000 dcis 2.5cm clear sentinel node, ER/PR- Her-2+
lumpectomy, 6 cycles AC, 6 weeks rads
October 2007 three x 2.5cm lung mets. 8 months Taxol, started Herceptin and continue. Significant reduction in lung mets.
June 2011 3cm x 4cm liver tumour. Started Abraxane and continue with Herceptin.
November 2011. Finished with Abraxane, continue with just Herceptin. Liver tumour now reduced to 15mm x 12mm. Lung tumour now 10mm x 0.5mm
February 2012. Scans show everything stable, and brain scan clear.
July 2012. PET/CT scans show I'm in remission - no active cancer!
]Dec CT brain cllear, lungs stable, liver tumour has increased to 20mm. PET scans showed active liver met and active lung thinglet, and possible bone met.
Jan 2013 recommence Abraxane, continue with Herceptin.
June 2013 finish Cycle 6 Abraxane, continue with Herceptin. 30% reduction in liver tumour, everything stable.
December 2013. CA15-3 on rise.
February 2014. PET and CT scans show single liver tumour has increased to 35mm. No other activity.
March 2014. Planned for SBRT for liver met, but couldn't have treatment as tumour too close to bowel. Continue Herceptin.
April 2014. Surgeon advises that I am a good candidate for liver resection, so will have operation early May (after camping holiday). Tumour now 44mm x 29mm.
May 7, 2014. Two liver tumours surgically removed. Third of liver removed, and gall bladder. Am I NED?May 2014. Pathology of tumour shows it's now ER+ (95% staining).
June 2014. CA15-3 has decreased to 18 from a pre-surgery reading of 59!
June 2014. Started Femara, continue with Herceptin.
July 2014. Stop Femara due to severe Osteoporosis. Commence Tamoxifen, continue Herceptin. Waiting to hear if I can have Aclasta infusion.
August 2014. CA15-3 has decreased further to 12 - YAY!
October 2014. Aclasta infusion for Osteoporosis. November 2014, CA15-3 decreased to 11. Scans of liver all clear, something new showing up on lung, but just watching at the moment.
November 2015. Started SBRT on solitary lung met.
November 2015. Bone density scan showed very good improvement so back on Femara - yay!
December 2016. 6 treatments of SBRT radiation on lung. Seems to have had some effect.
June 2016. CA15-3 still stable and low at 9.
June 2016. Started subcutaneous Herceptin replacing infusion.
Jan 2017. LVEF dropped to 46%. Stopped Herceptin.
Feb 2017. Started ACE Inhibitor and BETA Blocker. Still off Herceptin.
Aug 2017. Two new mets - Portacaval lymph node and mediastinal lymph node.
Aug 2017. Blood tests show extremely elevated liver enzyme levels. Many tests to investigate.
Sept 2017. Portacaval lymph node blocking liver bile duct causing liver enzyme and Bilirubin problems.
Oct 2017. 8cm stent inserted into liver bile duct. Procedure caused pancreatitis, and hospitalised for 3 days. Liver enzymes improving rapidly.
Nov 2017. Commenced 4 weeks of radiation on Portacaval lymph node. 5 week break before chemo.
Jan 2018. CT scan. 11 new small liver mets, and new superclavical lymph node med.
Jan 2018. Start Kadcyla. CA15-3 426.
Apr 2018. First scans since starting Kadcyla. All tumours reducing. CA15-3 dropped to 30 from 426.
Dec 2019. Still on Kadcyla, but two small brain mets have been treated in the past month with SRS. CA15-3 stable for 12 months at 11.
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Old 01-12-2013, 02:52 PM   #4
Ellie F
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Re: do antioxidants like vitamin E cause/worsen rather than prevent/fight cancer-- DN

The plot thickens! Is vitamin D still thought to be a good idea I wonder? What I also think needs answering is in relation to herbs and if they are safe?

Ellie
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Old 01-12-2013, 03:47 PM   #5
europa
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Re: do antioxidants like vitamin E cause/worsen rather than prevent/fight cancer-- DN

My Oncologist was very adamant about not taking any antioxidant supplements while I was going through treatment. My Radiology Oncologist too. I was told to only take B6 and Vitamin D. They also let me take Turmeric, Ginger and Boswelia....but only after I finished Taxol and Herceptin. They also told me not to drink shakes with too many fruits like blackberries, blueberries, oranges...etc. Anything that was packed with antioxidants was a no-no.
__________________
DX 10/2011
PET Scan + MRI 10/2011
Lumpectomy 11/11/11
Stage 2B +++ ER+(10%), PR+(5%), HER2+++(1 positive node, 1 micromets to second node)
AC started 12/2011 ended 1/2012
Taxol + Herceptin weekly for 12 weeks ended 4/2012
30 zaps of radiation done 6/2012
Tamoxifen 6/2012
every 3 weeks of Herceptin for another year.
Metformin Trial 8/12
10/12 MRI- CLEAR
01/13 BRAIN MRI- CLEAR!
01/13 Neck MRI- CLEAR!
FINISHED HERCEPTIN 1/9/2013...Woot Woot
Starting Walter Reed Vaccine Trial 2/13
CT Scans + ultrasound of abdomen CLEAR-5/13
02/2015 through 11/2015 emergency D&Cs for Tamoxifen induced uterine polyps which caused uncontrollable hemorrhaging
12/2015 blood clot to left leg caused by Tamoxifen. No longer taking it. On Xarelto, a blood thinner
12/2015 Ablation to prevent hemorrhaging from potential issues with Tamoxifen residue in my system
1/2016 continuing journey without hormonal therapy. Reevaluating the option of a hysterectomy and oopherectomy.
4/1/2018 2mm stroke. Yes, stroke! No cause ever found but they believe it was a migraine that went bonkers and created a tiny clot. No deficits. I was back to normal with 24hrs. Now on baby aspirin for life.
7/27/2018 hysterectomy and oopherectomy
01/07/2019 Mastectomy and expanders put in
3/22/2019 Vtach, almost died. Cause unknown.
7/22/2019 New perky boobs put in
7/21/2020 Off of all drugs but a baby aspirin because of the stroke in 2018.


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8 YEARS NED
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