not only does the tumor's Ki67 but so does its ER and PR status (with menstrual phase

[Lani]

What phase of the menstrual cycle a patient is in when she is operated influences the value of Ki67 (proliferative rate) AND ER aND PR STATUS!

1: Arch Iran Med. 2006 Jul;9(3):250-3. Links
Status of estrogen and progesterone receptors in various phases of the menstrual cycle in breast cancer.

Vasei M,
Azarpira N,
Talei A.
Department of Pathology, Cancer Research Center, Shiraz University of Medical Sciences, Shiraz, Iran. vaseim@sums.ac.ir
BACKGROUND: Expression of hormone receptors is routinely evaluated in predicting tumor response to hormone therapy in breast cancer patients. Normal female genital organs show cyclic changes in the expression of estrogen and progesterone receptors. This study was designed to assess variations in estrogen and progesterone receptor expression rates in breast cancer patients, who were operated in different phases of the menstrual cycle. METHODS: From 2001 through 2004, 161 premenopausal patients with breast cancer, who were operated on, were enrolled into this study. Immunohistochemistry for the expression of estrogen and progesterone receptors was performed on their tumor paraffin blocks, using antibodies against estrogen and progesterone receptors. RESULTS: Estrogen receptor expression was seen in 24 out of 30 cases (80%) in early luteal phase, which was significantly higher than that of those operated in early follicular (53%), late follicular (51%) and late luteal (49%) phases (P < 0.05). Progesterone receptor expression also showed a rising trend in the early luteal phase (87%), as compared with the other phases (P = 0.09). CONCLUSION: Expression of estrogen/progesterone receptor shows cyclic changes in breast cancer patients, being highest in the early luteal phase of the menstrual cycle. This variation implies that this phase of the cycle could be the golden time for evaluation of estrogen/progesterone receptor status.
PMID: 16859061 [PubMed - in process]

LA DONNA MOBILE (WOMEN ARE DEFINITELY CHANGEABLE AND CHANGING BEINGS!)

[Becky]

for bringing this subject up. I have read about it before but unfortunately, after I already had my surgery (during mid cycle which, supposedly is not a good time). Oh well.

I wonder if a changing pathology has anything to do with prognosis if you are "deemed" not as hormone positive as you really are?

Kind regards

Becky

[R.B.]

What about the wider issue of timing of TESTING.

I do not know anything about testing but how would the tests of two theoretical women with "identical" profiles tested at different times of the month appear.

Would their assessement of prognosis and treatment be different?

And what drives these cyclical changes and where do they originate. The point of the question would the point of origination alter views on the efficacy of ovarian removal - and considering possible higher impact of local production.

How does this change in the tumour oestrogen relate to change in other areas of the body.

Does the local production of eostrogen in the tumor cells and stromal bed etc follow the ovary or what ever is driving the oestrogen cycle.

OR are we looking at base level of production locally in tumour controlled by tumour plus effect of oestrogen cycle or shades inbetween or full linkage of all oestrogen to ovarian cycle.



Thanks for posting.

RB

[R.B.]

What is the expression of progesterone in the other phases in the tumor?

Did progesterone in the tumor reflect a normal cycle.

If above normal expected levels is tumor mimicking progesterone in pregnancy?

IF it differed from normal cylce would also suggest that tumor is controlling its own progesterone level.

RB

[Becky]

The tumor controlling its own progesterone production... ummmm. That is profoundly interesting but not at all far fetched.


Becky

[R.B.]

I think I have read somewhere that there is a cancer test the only other implication of a positive result is a pregnancy. Does this look at HCG or a related hormone?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_c..._gonadotropin?

FOUND IT!

I had forgotten about this and just had a vague recollection of reading about the test - it has obviously been rattling round in my subconcious!.

"..."In his brilliantly researched 1974 book World Without Cancer, researcher and author G. Edward Griffin explains the trophoblastic theory of cancer proposed by Professor John Beard of Edinburgh University, which states that certain pre-embryonic cells in pregnancy differ in no discernible way from highly-malignant cancer cells. Edwards Griffin continues:
"The trophoblast in pregnancy indeed does exhibit all the classical characteristics of cancer. It spreads and multiplies rapidly as it eats its way into the uterus wall preparing a place where the embryo can attach itself for maternal protection and nourishment."
The trophoblast is formed in a chain reaction by another cell that Griffin simplifies down to the 'total life' cell, which has the total capacity to evolve into any organ or tissue, or a complete embryo. When the total life cell is triggered into producing trophoblast by contact with the hormone estrogen, present in both males and females, one of two different things happens. In the case of pregnancy the result is conventional development of a placenta and umbilical cord. If the trophoblast is triggered as part of a healing process however, the result is cancer or, as Edward Griffin cautions: "To be more accurate, we should say it is cancer if the healing process is not terminated upon completion of its task."
Stunning proof of this claim is readily available. All trophoblast cells produce a unique hormone called the chorionic gonadotrophic (CGH) which is easily detected in urine. Thus if a person is either pregnant or has cancer, a simple CGH pregnancy test should confirm either or both. It does, with an accuracy of better than 92% in all cases. If the urine sample shows positive it means either normal pregnancy or abnormal malignant cancer. Griffin notes: "If the patient is a woman, she either is pregnant or has cancer. If he is a man, cancer can be the only cause." So why all of the expensive, dangerous biopsies carried to 'detect' cancerous growths? One can only assume that Medicare pays doctors a larger fee for biopsies than pregnancy tests.
The above book is a must read when it comes to nutrition and cause of metabolic diseases."...
Extracted from: Politics in Healing : The Suppression & Manipulation of American Medicine
For a blood test see: The AMAS Test For Early Detection and Monitoring of Cancer"


Does the tumour emit the same hormones as an implanted foetus. which maintains progesterone which is the permissive element in the tumours growth.

IF this is the case why not target progesterone.

What other roles does progesterone have in the body in relation to cell renewal?