Early stage HER2++ without recurrence

What are the statistics. in early stage node neg. HER2++ without a recurrence? What is the longest time span from diagnosis without a recurrence that we know of (without Herceptin) and only A/C chemo + Tamoxifen or Arimidex? I am 5 yrs. out in Nov. since DX ... at this point I believe my chances for recurrence are about the same as a HER2 neg. person. I am very curious as to how many HER++ recur after 5 yrs, I don't think they have been testing much longer than 5 or 6 years have they?

Bevvie, I was diagnosed first with breast cancer 20 years ago, in 1985. It came back again in 1990, 14 years ago, and then in June of last year. I do not know if I was Her2+ the first two times because as far as I know I wasn't tested for it, but I had no chemo or radiation either time. I definitely am Her2+ now, and have done well so far, first on Navelbine and Herceptin for 6 months and now just Herceptin (with Femara also for a year). I don't know if it is possible to develop the Her2+ syndrome later if it wasn't there the first time. I hope this is some help to you. Tricia

Hi Bevie
I was dx 4.3 yrs ago with a 2cm tumour; grade 3; 1 node +ve; ER/PR-.
I asked to have my tumour tested about 1-2 years ago and found it was Her2+++. After dx. I went on the taxotere trial and had 3 cycles Adriamycin, 3 cycles taxotere and three cycles CMF. To date I have had no problems and take 100 mg Q 10/daily and flaxseed oil/meal when I can. Plus iodine (seaweed tablet), alpha lipoic acid and I also use natural progesterone cream (1.6%). plus vit B complex.
I found the following article re. Her2+ and survival rates etc. with the graphs at:
http:clincancerres.aacrjournals.org/content/vol8/issue2/images/medium/df0221158002

If that doesnt work let me know.
The graphs show that for the series analysed the Her 2+ node negative patients had only slighly worse survival rates that the Her 2- node negative patients. Not the case for the Her2+ node + who had worse suvival rates compared with the Her2- node+ group; however after 4 years the frequency of relapses and the survival rates for these two groups were similar.
This was a retrospective analysis of two series of patients who had BC in either 1968 or 1978. The 1978 patients (node + )had CMF the 1968 patients had no chemo. just surgery. Interesting to note that all patients in the 1978 series had better survival not just the chemo. group. (node+) compared to the 1968 patients.

Regards
Jackie

From a 2004 source:

"Her1 or HER2 is over-expressed in 30% of primary human breast cancers. These patients show a worse prognosis with overall 50% survival after 90 months compared to 70% with HER2 negative tumors. "

90 months is 7.5 years. And so far no Herceptin in sight for those of us who are between 1 year out and 7.5 years out...

AlaskaAngel

Hi Alaska Angel, I wasn't aware of thoses statistics did it mention whether the HER2 gals in the study were ER positive or neg? node positive or neg?
Also did they have A/C chemo? If it is 50% at 7.5 yrs geesh I wonder what it will be in 10 yrs.? I am surprised that they are not doing any clinical trials for HER+ women that have been out of treatment for over one year that are ned, I would think that would be the next trial?

Hi Bevie, the report from 2004 was an endocrinology report but that was the only part that referred to HER2's and there was no matching breakdown of the characteristics just for the HER2's

Many studies are done on the main group of bc patients and so are counted in terms of the whole group, and not broken down further into the different kinds of HER2 positives or negatives.

Whether or not it is true, there is some information indicating that a large number of the HER2's that do recur, do so within the first 3 years, and some people think that by the time a clinical trial was offered and completed, the only ones who would benefit from the results would be those who happened to get whatever treatment actually worked in the trial because everybody else that was still around would have made it past those 3 years.

There are some of us and some oncologists and researchers who do think a clinical trial should be offered.

I am HER2+++ and one of those left out. I think it is wrong to think that there are not enough people to benefit from a clinical trial. For one thing, they learned enough from the Herceptin trials to make some important decisions early enough in the clinical trial to change therapy for everyone and help more people, so that could be also true for a trial for us too. I also do not believe they have enough truly accurate data from the past about HER2 positives to decide that very few of us recur after the third year so "why bother with the many people from years past".

I see HER2's recurring often enough after 3 years in various support groups that I have to disagree with those who are writing us off. I also think it would be important to figure out whether some combination of chemo-plus-Herceptin is better than Herceptin alone, especially if the combo were given short-term and compared to longer-term Herceptin alone.

A.A.