CONTROVERSIAL TOPIC -- hear me out...

[Andrea Barnett Budin]

IF YOU FIGURE THAT ONE OUT, let us all know. I do know that when I stopped looking at 1 of my puppies that we rescued as a lost cause, scared to death I would lose him and started to think differently -- he became healed. He had mange, no hair on his face, neck and chest. Only red raw skin, looking a burn victim, obviously in dire pain, wouldn't eat or drink, crept into corners, ready to die. I would look at him with so much FEAR. Then I opened the bk the rescue lady gave me. It happened to open to a chapter called The Spiritual Realm. The vet was from Cornell, mainstream for 10, and had become a holistic vet.

I read voraciously. Then I picked my Chase up and put him in my lap, this pathetic little puppy. I told him, and thought, I see (NOT YOUR RAW HORRID FACE, but) your beautiful Soul and I meant it with all my heart. I told him not to be afraid. (I'd known that, but forgot, I knew it w/regard to ME, but forgot when faced w/his sickness). I told him I was right there with him. That I'd make him well. I stroked him and kissed him for a half hr. When I put him down he walked perkily away. No one had paid so much attention to him in the 4 mnths of his life. When I returned to the vet he was amazed. Why I asked. Because when a dog is that sick they usually don't make it. He tested for the mites that were ravaging his immune system and body and he was clear. I smiled at my husband, a non-believer. Chase is now 4 yrs old and we have his brother Scamp too. They bring much joy and love to our home and our lives. I thank God ev day for the blessing of these boys. And for still being alive! It's all so wonderfully miraculous.

And I am grateful you Audrey are still here. Perhaps God and/or your Spirit had your back and got you through. Regardless, I am glad you made it through and with great attitude to boot! Hurray for you. Live each day in joy and peace. Be well and stay well. ANDI

[Andrea Barnett Budin]

Not because you may agree w/me but because that's simply who you are, from all your postings. I love that about you. You are OPEN and have the courage to mentally meander a bit. You are so full of positivity and joy and that is what you draw to you. So glad you are a Survivor. You are an Olympic gold medalist in my book. A winner. May it continue for many decades to come. I sense it will... Sending you loving, healing energy, ANDI

[Andrea Barnett Budin]

It distresses me that you who are outraged feel that way. Can't we just agree to disagree. Not take it personally? Not feel the need to fight. Every word I post is sent with loving energy, in the hopes of being inspiring, yes thought-provoking but never to stir up anger. That is so shocking to me. Why do you think those of you who felt so offended by the idea that we are so empowered?

I do not claim responsibility for causing my bc, but see the line that connects the dots, now in hindsight. It was amazing, yet I felt no guilt. I knew I would never do anything to hurt anyone, especially myself. I am a pacifist through and through. Maybe if you were threatening someone I loved dearly I might come at you, but otherwise... Just not an angry person. Esp since bc.

Much more willing to listen and learn, or reject, views. Politics -- I stay clear. There I become passionate. But otherwise, we each have our views. Most people I email, off this board, tell me they carry my messages with them in their pocketbooks or keep them in a pile on their night stand for easy access. Some times during the day they return to my words for strength in getting through their battle. This thrills me, obviously, as my intent is always to do just that. They treasure my words. I am saddended by those who reacted so vehemently. I still send you loving energy, and pray you will calm yourself and find your connection to your spiritual essence, at your core. We are here to support one another. I have NEVER gotten such opposition. Guess you're very strong minded, though many I communicate w/are precisely that yet "get" it. So sorry if you don't. Just promise you won't go feeling guilty. And to all who've fought and lost the struggle, I do not know why they were taken but I love and miss them. I can't see why from my perspective, but they fought hard and somehow lost anyway. Would love to figure it out, but maybe it's not something those of us on the Physical Plane are able to see, sadly. It appears that it's just not fair, makes no sense, but I have faith that their is a Divine Intelligence with a Plan and purpose, beyond our ability to grasp.

Meantime, keep doing what you know, stay strong, brave and determined and feel as much joy and serenity as you possibly can. Each day is a gift. Those on this board know this well. Not a single day goes by that I don't say thank you with all my heart. Out loud. PEACEFUL THOUGHTS TO YOU ALL... ANDI

[Edie L]

This whole line of thought is certainly not a new one among people who have cancer (or amidst the "wisdom" of people who have become "experts" because they know a few people who have cancer.) It makes me think of the many people who observe that I am still alive after 3 1/2 years with mets to the liver because I have such a positive attitude: I've gotten to the point where I just chuckle and say, "Boy, that means that heaven is filled with people with negative attitudes! It doesn't sound like a very nice place to be...."
Edie (MI)

[chrisy]

Great discussion - lots of spirit for sure! I agree with everyone!

Andrea, I admire your energy and committment to this and read your posts with great hunger! I mostly agree with your opinions and often wonder HOW you can keep control over your thoughts - I have a tough time here, especially when things go south. But there is little real debate over whether there is a mind-body connection. More and more research comes out every year on the power of the mind-body-spirit connections. We still just don't know enough about it and maybe we never will.

I don't buy the "I caused my own cancer" riff - and I don't think Andrea is suggesting this - but I do believe that my thoughts and feelings affect my physiological processes, including immune response. So my mind has some power to tip the scales for or against my health. Tipping the scales adds or detracts some %, along with treatment, general health, and the pure biology of the disease.

Another interesting but slow read is "Healing Words" by Dr. Larry Dossey. This book looks beyond the mind-body connection to the power of prayer and other "non-local" influences - i.e. your thoughts can influence someone elses physiology! I've read this book twice and come away less with answers and more with a sense of wonder.

I believe our bodies have a lot of intelligence for healing, and we can try to harness or direct it with our thoughts. Or with our prayers, or the prayers of others. We are all, basically, just energy. We do what we can to take control, or the illusion of control but in the end it's really in the hands of a higher power.

Great topic - and nice job, ladies and gents, in having this discussion in the spirit of love and support! That's why this is the ONLY board I have "exposed" myself to by posting instead of just lurking!

Chris

Well Andrea, if what you say is true, I should be dead of myriad diseases ages ago. Yet I lived a very healthy life until 65, never went near doctors, ranted and railed at every political turn of this country, never hesitated to bad mouth doctors, lawyers, indian chiefs, drug companies, oil companies, and any other entities or people that annoyed me. I haven't a positive thought in my head, never had, and never will. That all being said, I enjoy life and my own cynicism and I hope to continue for a long while to come. So I guess I'm with Maryjo, Erin, and Kimber on this one.

[Andrea Barnett Budin]

Yes, Thanks for that. A lot of Spirit. Not mean-spirited. Not nasty. Just passionate. I love that take. I'm going to own it. Yes tip the scale in yr favor. Right on. Who knows what %. But ev inch helps. One step at a time. Will check out HEALING WORDS by Larry Dossey. EVERY THOUGHT IS LIKE A PRAYER. EVERY PRAYER IS A POTENTIAL MIRACLE. So our thoughts and prayers are potent! How grand is that?! We must do what we have the power to do.

Thanks, Chrisy for not just lurking. Love your input! Love you.

As for controlling or re-programming yr thoughts -- that's quite the challenge, believe me I know. In my early 20s, a 100 yrs ago, I lived haunted and taunted my thoughts recalling my trauma of a childhood. I couldn't get free. It was only after bc that I began reading spiritual bks and found that we need not remain in the role of victim. I grew from thinking I can't change what was and must live with it to -- It taught me much, I will take the lessons and use them well. I began to re-write my thoughts and put plenty of love into them.
I mean this pure, unconditional Universal Love that seemed to be drawn to me
as I prepared for my mastec. I was in my pool in my backyard in Dix Hills, LI, bobbing tippy toe, gently treading water, almost in the deep end, but still able to touch bottom. I lifted my face to the sun and felt this Inner Voice say with great authority -- I'VE SEEN THIS MOVIE AND IN THE END, THE HEROINE (ME) LIVES. It hit me w/such a profound faith and certainty it has never left me. I felt the sun as the Light from a Higher Power blessing me and already healing me.

Now as I meditate I recapture that moment of CONNECTING which empowers me to chose the words I will think upon all day, knowing what we think all day becomes our reality. This keeps me buoyant and believing in my power to impact my destiny.

No, I did not cause my bc. Certainly not directly. But circuitously, perhaps, full of my childhood anger, resentment and blame for The Poor Child That Was Me. I wanted to stand up for her, demand apologies and make her heal. I was just going about it all wrong. I came to heal that Child and her emotional wounds with a loving Spirit, compassion for my poor Father and then the capacity to forgive (vs dwell in negative blame and such). THAT WAS INCREDIBLY HEALING. It put me on the path to surviving. Chemo helped. Surely Herceptin continues to help. Foraging in my mental attic and working at being grounded makes me feel joyful and tranquil, which in turns makes me well -- I BELIEVE. I wish the same for all the brave, daring, well-informed warriors on this board. Every single one! Always... ANDI

[Andrea Barnett Budin]

Guess cynicism and venting (which is very therapeutic) works for you. Along w/stubborness, which I am as well, and has worked well for me in refusing to give in or give up. Glad you find joy all the same. That is what you deserve, along w/wellness. Sending you healing energy which I hope you will accept... Smiling anyway. You made me laugh, you tough cookie you. That's what it takes, you know! ANDI

[Andrea Barnett Budin]

Can't find your post but got your message. Sounds like the is the cup half full or half empty perspective. Heaven, or the Spiritual Realm is a lovely place. Negative attitudes don't necessarily kill you. If hatred and vengeance didn't kill Hitler long before he did it himself, and Saddam Hussein lived and thrived for so long -- that's a mystery indeed. Again, all we see is not all there is. Are my dogs Sassafras and Jezebel in Heaven. I'm thinking they must be. I'm looking forward to seeing them again.

Glad you're doing well and sending you loving, happy, healthy energy... ANDI

[vickie h]

Dearest Andi,
There are many who will be offended by your post, but I, for one, am standing in a field of sunshine clapping my hands together in praise of your bravery. After reading "The Buddha in your mirror" as well as numerous publications and writings, I can humbly and happily applaud you for telling the truth. It is a hard pill to swallow, though much as chemo, diet, exercise, wholistic treatment (meaning the whole of us, Including our thoughts and the way we view the world, our bodies, others, our spirituality, etc.) and it has everything to do with our health. It has been debated for years that our thoughts (angry, hurtful, childhood trauma, stress, etc) can cause our immune systems to begin breaking down and opening the door for disease.
I was one of those people. Angry at the state of my life, raped as a child, raised by a single mom who was barely able to provide for us 4 children, fell into the drugs of the sixties. And yet, I loved other people and animals and the world around me with a passion and yet, all those around me had no idea of the unresolved pain I was living with. Each and every one of them thought I was extremely positive about life, happy and a fighter. The truth is I was drowning....and then I was diagnosed.
I don't suggest that is every one's story or cause of their illness, but I do believe that our thoughts are tantamount to our health......physical, emotional, and spiritual.
I am the same person I was all those years ago, but I have come to face to face with fear, and it has changed my life. In the very blackness of the night, a light so bright and warm covers me with blankets of love.
Thank you, Andi. I send you my love and prayers, Vickie

[Jean]

I believe what Andi is trying to share wtih us is that the "the mind helps
heal the body"...no one can deny that when your thoughts are happy
you deal best with physical discomforts....why does it seem so?

How does a Mother lift a baby grand piano that fell on top of her child?
How does the runner who is exhausted and at his last breath manage to
finish the race and win? The list is endless..our minds are powerful.

I do not for a second think that Andi is saying that we caused our cancer.
But rather that when we are not able to lift our spirit and soul we can
cause our immune system to falter. I think we can all relate to a situation
when we were down or depressed - did you find that your body was more
prone to colds, feeling tired and a host of other physcial issues.

I know she meant to share a wholesome part of herself with us and
certainly did not suggest that we caused our cancer. We have the power
and the ability to make chocies...It is easier for us to work in harmony
with the mind and body.

Hugs to All,
Jean

[chrisy]

Your "pool story" really resonated with me. Shortly before my (completely unexpected!) mets diagnosis, I had a dream which I later realized was a message.

In my dream, I was shot with an arrow - right where my liver is - and as I showed it to my parents (no longer living except in dream life!) and others, everyone I just looked at it and said/knew "oh, I can live with this"! I believe this dream was both a warning and a reassurance and it has been a comfort to me over these past few years. There was also some stuff about me hooking up with this gorgeous lawyer dude, but I haven't been able to figure out the message there - so I just remember that part for fun!

Andi, you have a lot of energy for a 120 year old!

[Believe51]

Andrea all I can say is Amen to that! I have a friend who has has Non-Hodgkins Lymphoma since 1982, and at the time a major Cancer Clinic told him to go home to his newly wed wife of a year(who just found out she was pregnant) and get ready to die, only not that nice. He got a second opinion from the doctor we will be seeing June 19. That doctor said, no Eddie, I will not let you die. Of course, we know that it is not all in the doctor's hands. And so did my little buddy, Eddie!! Eddie is my husband's longtime friend and a major positive influence about fighting someone tells you is useless. We cannot let them give us death sentences!! We ARE the masters of our own future, and the mind is the best medicine known to man!! Eddie has told my husband many times that: YOU MUST MAKE YOUR MIND KNOW IT WILL BE HELPING YOU CONQUER THIS!! YOUR MIND MUST BELIEVE YOUR BODY WILL NOT BE ALLOWED TO DIE OR GIVE UP!! I have taken many Psychology classes and the mind amazes me always! Right now hubby is reading many books and the one that is mostly in his hands regarding this topic is: "Mind Magic" and he says it is a great read, try to check it out. Also, if you asked an Oncologist if he would give chemo to his Breast Cancer Mother, he would say NO!! He would also give her the treatment because it is all the ammo he has. But she does not, she has her mind and her undying desire to live!! Thanks for the thoughts of the day, The Mind Is A Terrible Thing To Waste!!!!!>Waiting For A Miracle>..Believe51..(Marie G)

[Believe51]

I do not think Andrea wanted anyone of us to be appalled or offended, this topic was just a discussion. Everyone's health achievements come from many forms of tactics. Chemotherapy, excercise, eating right and avoiding sugar, supplements, maintaining a good doctor, asking the right questions, etc. etc. and MIND POWER. "In conjuction with everything". Andrea loves us all and means no harm I am sure. I think what she is saying here, is that the mind is another tool we can use to fight and that it is a very powerful tool. We all know that the will to live has to do with mind power. We all have the right to be offended, but some might be offended knowing that others believe it is all in GOD'S Hands!! Keep an open mind and I hope I did not hurt or offend any one of you girls, I love you all too!!>>Waiting For A Miracle...Believe51..(Marie G)

P.S: WE ARE ALL HERE TO HELP EACH OTHER AND OUR OPINIONS ARE NOT ALWAYS SEEN THE SAME BY OTHERS, OUR GOALS ARE ALL THE SAME!!!

[IRENE FROM TAMPA]

I was drawn to what you had to say and I understand what you are saying.

I also understand the thoughts of the other ladies. Although I have always been a very positive person and very open minded, I have issues like everyone else. I have been trying to work on these issues through the mind/body healing method.

I can't say that I would totally depend on that for my cure, but I also see where it could be of benefit to my immune system and soul.

I am one of the fortunate one's that has survived this cancer for the last 11 1/2 years and have lived with active cancer for the last several years. There were many other ladies on our board that were brave and galant fighters that were not as fortunate. Why I am still here, I don't know but I do know that I will continue my fight with all the strength of my being. I dont blame anyone for my cancer and I definately do not blame myself. I think of myself as a "chosen one" and that there must be a purpose/plan for me.

I am going to continue working on that positive thinking in hopes of getting to that peaceful place in my mind.

I have printed your post and will read it for inspiration.

Thanks Andi and have a great day.

[saleboat]

Hello Andi,

It is my firm belief that one's response to treatment is based on poorly understood genetic quirks. If it makes you feel good to think that your fabulous resonse to treatment is because of your own free will, well that's your take on the world. I think it is a little heartless to broadcast it to women who aren't so lucky, but I guess that makes me a cynic, right?

I know we'd all like to think that we have some control over cancer, and there are many ways that 'we' try to gain it...thinking warm fuzzy thoughts, taking supplements, praying to our God.

Me, I'm just hoping that I have the right genetic quirk that equals a good response to all the poison I've consumed in this fight.

And I'm wishing everyone peace, strength and courage in their battle.

Jen

[Adriana Mangus]

Dear Andi: I love your postings. Did someone get offended by it?

I can't imagine anyone being upset over "your" inspirational view on Life and possibly Death. As you mentioned we are unique, and as such we have our own way to deal with breast cancer issues.

I'm like you, I prefer to be known as a warrior, determined, fearless, commited to trustworthy causes, loving, courageous, etc.., you get the point.

People who have determination to live and have no resentment, nor feel victimized by this disease, have a positive attitude, surrender themselves to whatever comes their way, accept without anger and thrive to make the best of -even- the most horrible experiences in life, THOSE are the REAL SURVIVORS.

It has been documented, positive attitude would help you live longer.

I have this experience: My neighbor was dx with bc after my diagnosis, her cancer recurred shortly before mine did. She was so upset, I couldn't believeit, I did not like to be around her, I felt compassion for her, but everytime I would talk to her she would make statements such as: "I do not understand why me, when other people are mean spirited and am a good person. I see people traveling all over the world, with money and a good life and why me. Well, sadly she's no longer with us. She died just after two years after the recurrence. I cannot imagine how bitter she must have been lying in bed waiting to die.

I am thankful to God, the scientists, my doctor, nurses and everyone who's sharing this journey with me.

I'm not a victim, I AM A SURVIVOR, LIVING A GREAT LIFE. I'M HAVING THE BEST TIME EVER!!!!

[Andrea Barnett Budin]

Thanks so much for sharing your experience. That takes courage, I know. I too was always seen w/a smile on my face, happy serenity beaming from me. I loved Life and people and the world. But deep inside I too was lost and groping.

My readings say that unhealed, unresolved emotions are reflected in our genetically weakest area. Some get migraines, some get stomach issues, etc. Some have been eating the wrong foods for their body to perform at peak level, unbeknownst to them (or they'd surely unequivocally alter that pattern). Some eat whatever they want, much junk food plus smoke and don't get sick till they are in their 90s. Its all fascinating and confusing, for us and the professionals. But we do the best we can. I send you my love and prayers and thank you heartily for yours. I have written your beautiful sentence down -- "IN THE VERY BLACKNESS OF THE NIGHT A LISGHT SO BRIGHT AND WARM COVER ME WITH BLANKETS OF LOVE". What a remarkable and radiant Soul you are! It is an honor to know you. Stay in touch, please. Sending loving, healing energy your to help in your struggle to be and stay a Survivor.

BTW -- I admire ev woman fighting this brave fight that calls upon ev shred of strength and grace we can muster -- whether they win or lose. I applaud them, admire them, grieve for them and know they did their very best. Big hugs... ANDI

[RobinP]

The chances that a woman purposefully or unconsciously did something to trigger bc or promote it is remote, if any. Instead of blaming, we need to encourage each other to look at our situation differently, without guilt and shame.Let's uplift each other, make the best of worst circumstances, and see bc as an opportunity where we can help each other survive and feel better about ourselves.

Just wanted to add that I think the author of this thread was trying to help others, despite some contraversial views.
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[Andrea Barnett Budin]

I love your Spirit! You encapsulate what I am trying to transmit. You have the recipe down. I never asked why me. I didn't even cry. (At least not the 1st go round, the met stunned me for a while thinking -- I'M DYING. It's incurable, inoperable and I will be on long term chemotherapy for the rest of my life, said my onc slowly and w/obvious sadness and pain. Those words rang in my head. I couldn't speak to anyone. I was processing the info. Went for 4 opin. 1 onc said incurable, ca is incurable, it is a chronic disease, but we can manage it, get you in to remission. Inoperable? You're better off without the surg. It'll weaken you to fight the side effects of the chemo. Longterm chemo -- there are new kinder gentler chemos you can take. And if they don't work, we've got doz more. You are healthy. I laughed. Aside frm the ca I was healthy. You have a great attitude, a great support team (husb, dghtrs, friends) -- you'll do fine! I embraced that attitude, after thinking I'd just heard the worst possible words from my 1st onc (who I still see and love). He has 3 dghtrs, he'd known me for 3 yrs, was shaken. I forgive him. He is a good man and a great onc.

But his 1st words sounded like something you hear in soap opera. They were the worst words you could imagine hearing. A death sentence. I'd been on chemo (Adria CMF) 8 mnths of that, and the lingering effects for so long after finishing that -- that's a way to spend the rest of your life. But then came Herceptin. I can do this. Now ev 3 wks (triple dose). It's a walk in the park. Many tests to keep on top of all body parts, annoying, but ev day I enjoy the heck out of it and spend much time thinking of being loving and grateful.

I sit around full of anger and bitterness is self-defeating. And sure I have my moments of fear and worry and feeling overwhelmed, but I scrabble back up the mountain and get my footing again, because I know that's what I must do to keep on keeping on.

I HAVE NEVER THOUGHT OF CHEMO AS "POISON". It is the best the med prof has to offer us today. One day it will be viewed as primitive, to be sure. But for now -- it is our lifeline. It pulls me through the rough waters. I hold my head high and endure the drug that is out to annihilate ev malig cell in my body. I try to help through "guided imagery" which some teach. Thoughts are energy. You are energy. Even the visions we have are energy. They are emitted by us and felt by others AND they are sensed by the Universe which responds by sending us LIKE ENERGY. It's some Cosmic Law, as sure as gravity. We couldn't see bacteria before the microscope but many believed they existed. And, besides, "thinking" loving, joyful, compassionate, grateful thoughts(for our suddenly visible multitude of blessings) -- if nothing else -- HOW WE WILL "FEEL" ALL DAY.

Please ladies, do not dwell on feeling embittered, victimized, forced to succumb to poisoning ourselves -- you will feel miserable as a result, at the very least. Don't do that to yourself, please! You deserve better than that. And maybe it counters in to a degree in healing (as they have found laughter and social contact do). Ever listen to a 100 yr old person explain why they think they've lived so long. They've mourned many at their age, but found their way back to happiness. They are full of laughter and humor.

When I had my (always dreaded) mastec, I began to oddly think -- when I put on a double breasted jacket, is it still double breasted? Can I still do the breast stroke in the pool? It was weird, but it made me laugh, in the face of my worst nightmare ever, losing a breast AND having ca AND having to have 8 mnths of chemo. I was shocked to find when I went for my 1st mammog that I was unilateral. I got a bargain rate. Oh, great. I thought of my reconst tram flap breast as a breast. True, made out of stomach parts, but they were my stomach parts. I came home and told Paul. I said does that mean if I get ca in my left breast, I'll have stomach ca? We both laughed. Keep smiling. Being in the 1% club doesn't make me better than anyone else. I want every one of you to join me! I'm doing my best to suggest ways to get there. UCLA (through Pegram and Slamon) did a 1 yr study of longterm Survivors -- to try and figure out what makes them diff. I had hrs long interviews 3 X over the yr. I filled out many pgs of questionnaires asking PSYCHOLOGICAL questions. Rating on a scale of 1 to 5 if most days you feel things like: sadness, fear, anger, etc. Then there were essays. And 3X a day swabs all 3 X throughout the yr -- to check your seratonin levels. Did you drink alcohol today? Do you smoke? What pills did you take and what dosages and why do you take them. My 2 doz supplements were listed, along w/my prescrip drgs. Did you exercise today? Is this typical, unusual, etc. Have you had caffeine today? In depth study. Looking for answers predominantly outside the lab, beyond genes. I was honored to take the time to participate. I want the 1% to be the 90 something club! I want YOU to join. Sending much love your way... ANDI