Dating when Stage IV

Bunty · 05-26-2012, 06:32 AM

I've been thinking for a while whether I should put a dilemma I have to this wise group on the HER 2 forum. I'm hoping no one is offended and sees it as trivial, and if so, please excuse me.

Shortly before I was diagnosed with Stage IV mets (about 4.5 years ago), I had ended a fairly long relationship. Of course, I had lots on my plate at this time, so dating wasn't high on the agenda. Thankfully my disease stabilised, so I dipped my toe back in the dating game about 2 years ago, but 'chickened' out after about a month when I was getting to the stage of trying to describe my situation, yet, keep it light (not too many details, and definitely no mention of Stage IV and what that means!). Part of me would have liked not to have broached the subject early in the dating life cycle, but having quite an obvious port, it was hard not to provide some kind of explanation, not to mention the scar and deep divot on my left breast from my lumpectomy (at some point I was hoping that my date might see below my neck!) So with advice from friends, I decided that it was probably best to make mention of 'it' after about the second date if I thought there might be potential with the guy. But I found the fear of rejection because of cancer too confronting, so I shut up shop, until now that is. A year ago, I had a further recurrence, and lost my hair (again!), and set myself the goal that once my hair grew back (on my head - wouldn't have minded the legs staying hair free), I would dip my toe in again. So today, I updated my online dating profile, added some lovely pics with my new short hair, but haven't activated it yet. I was hoping for some input, particularly from women who are stage IV, on how to 'prepare' someone who probably hasn't much idea about cancer, except for the very sad Hollywood version.

I know I'm a survivor, and despite my liver mets last year, actually feel more optimistic than I did after the original Stage IV diagnosis, so the fear of rejection is not as strong (cue Gloria Gaynor "I Will Survive").

I have wonderful friends and family, and am quite independent and happy in my own space, however, I do miss the intimacy of a special relationship, both mentally and physically.

I feel very well, and am quite healthy and fit, in fact much 'weller' than many other people I work with and know, so on the surface I look pretty normal (whatever that is really!)

So really I was hoping for thoughts on when and how to make mention of my cancer status to someone I might date. Sorry for the long winded post.

Cheers Marie

BonnieR · 05-26-2012, 10:15 AM

Good on you for wanting to get back in the pool! I am absolutly no help in this regard but I recall prior discussions of this topic so I am sure others will have suggestions for you.
I just wanted to show support. Keep the faith.

Paty · 05-26-2012, 12:21 PM

Dear Marie,

When we go trough a experience like BC, we learn that living fully is what we need to do for the time that God lends us in this earth, so do not be afraid! live your life to the fullest, whoever will want to be with you will do no matter what. Go for what you want and enjoy it!

Jeanette · 05-26-2012, 12:46 PM

Go for it Marie, if it is someone who really cares they will see past any issues with your health and see you for the beautiful person you are, Blessings, Jeanette

Lien · 05-26-2012, 03:09 PM

None of us, whether we have cancer of any stage or not, know when we will die. We all start relationships when we are ready to let someone into our lives, close to our hearts. So when you feel ready, go for it!

As for when to broach the subject: I think on the second date. If the other person cannot handle your diagnosis, they cannot handle you. They don't deserve you.

When I met my husband he said on the first date: I have two children that I rarely get to see. They come first and their mother is the best mother in the world. If you want to be with me, you will have to be able to accept that.

You know what I felt? I immediately knew I could trust this man, because he was honest about his priorities and about his love for his children. If I hadn't been able to handle the kids and the ex, our relationship would have had no future. I respected his honesty.

What I'm trying to say is, that something that may be totally unacceptable to one person, can be (more than) okay for someone else.

Even if you find that someone cannot deal with your being Stage IV, it's better to know it as soon as possible.

I wish you a loving relationship with someone worthy of you.

Love

Jacqueline

Mtngrl · 05-26-2012, 03:13 PM

Marie, I'm glad you brought it up. You are beautiful, vibrant, and full of life. I'm happy for you that you feel up to looking for a special love relationship. Maybe someday I will follow suit.

I'm also very interested in what other members say in response to your question. When I date I tend to take it very slowly, so for me the second date would be far too soon to talk about my cancer. I'd still be trying to assess how much to tell the guy about anything, much less that.

Years ago, on a first date, I was wearing two wrist bands, a white one and a yellow one (from Livestrong.) My date asked about them. I said the white one is for the ONE campaign, to get Congress to allocate an additional one percent to ending extreme poverty in the world. I said I wore the yellow one because I was a bicyclist and cancer survivor. He asked what kind of cancer and I said melanoma. I noticed a brief look of sadness on his face.

We went on to talk about other things. He was a widower. I eventually asked how his wife had died. He said "melanoma."

The dating didn't really go anywhere, but he and I are friends. He's been very supportive since my breast cancer diagnosis. Interestingly, he did not remember our conversation about melanoma, although he remembered other details of that first date.

Jackie07 · 05-26-2012, 05:50 PM

Marie,

Since you've stated "I feel very well, and am quite healthy and fit, in fact much 'weller' than many other people I work with and know, so on the surface I look pretty normal...," there's no reason why you need to be (worried about) disclosing your health status.

Just be 'normal', be yourself, and have a good time! I was talking non-stop on the first date with my husband because I was upset over something/somebody and he looked/acted like a good listener. He didn't ask me out again until a couple of months later...

I believe it wasn't until we were going 'steady' before we shared our 'medical history'. None of what we knew/shared back then would predict I'd have a brain tumor surgery two years after our wedding; he'd have heart surgery in another 15 years; and I'd have GKRS for brain tumor recurrence plus two breast cancer surgeries/treatment before our 20th Anniversary...

Just like the stock broker's fine print - "Past performance does not guarantee future profit" - nobody can predict the future. So seize the day and enjoy what life has to offer!

Bunty · 05-26-2012, 08:52 PM

Thanks everyone for your votes of confidence, and encouragement. Thanks for reminding me to live life to the full - gee if we can handle living with cancer we can handle just about anything!

Jacqueline, I think you are absolutely right about honesty - I just wonder how much information should I share? I think you are all saying just be myself.... this is who I am..... (the rich tapestry of life etc!)

I was just reflecting now about when I took on the job I have now in an advertising agency about 2 years ago. I had previous dealings with this company in another 'life', so the management knew I had gone through BC. However, I needed the job back then, so was not fully comprehensive about my stage IV status. As it turns out, I have become a valuable member of staff, and they couldn't be more caring and understanding, particularly following the liver mets diagnosis. I think I showed them that life goes on, and I never missed a day at work related to my treatment. Mind you, just 3 months after I commenced, I had a major motorcycle accident which put me in hospital for two months, and out of work for 3, and it all turned out for the best as they moved me into another section which I love. So what I'm getting at is that I need to take the lessons at this workplace with me now as I consider going down the dating path.

But I'm really enjoying everyone's thoughts so would love to read other's perspectives too!

Cheers Marie

SoCalGal · 05-26-2012, 10:20 PM

I'm an expert on that subject. Well, maybe not an expert but will share what I said to my man about my disease (about a year and a half ago).

I did not talk about it right away, we had gone on a handful of dates, which included physical activity like a hike, we'd gone out dancing, so he saw me as "normal and healthy" because I am.

When the time came to become more intimate, I spoke with him along these lines: "I want to share something with you...I am a 16 year survivor of breast cancer. I am 4+ years stage 4 and I view my illness as chronic - it's something I manage. I am only bringing this up because some of my body parts are re-arranged and I would not want you to be shocked. I am very comfortable with my body and self. I know it's a lot to take in right now, so as you have questions feel free to talk to me about things at any time." He asked me a couple of body part questions (guys are guys) and we continued in our relationship. As time went on, I would share more of cancer world with him, and after several months I asked him to come to treatment with me. I will say that it helps that we are both over 50. I think that a certain maturity sets in for everyone when you reach the big 5-0.

This helped me, too:
A very close friend of mine (male) said to me when I was starting to date, Look, you're going to date a lot of men in your life. Some men will be okay with your illness, some will not. It's not personal. The ones who are not okay with it are not for you. It's the same as with your kids. Some men will feel that your kids are no big deal, others will not be okay with it. THAT put things into perspective for me and allowed me to be very matter of fact in my discussion of cancer. It was something in my life - take it and me or leave it and me! It allowed me to be very matter of fact and straightforward in my approach.

I don't think you have to tell too much at first. DAting is a process. Why share your personal medical info when you are just getting to know someone. It is so nice to be a woman and not a cancer patient. And it is nice for the man to see you for you and not some cancer girl.

If someone asks what your port is, you can say it's a long story and you'll tell them at another time. If they cannot respect that, then they are not the right man for you, wouldn't you say?

Hope this helps you!

ElaineM · 05-27-2012, 10:37 AM

I think some excellent suggestions were shared here.
I have one more. First dates don't need explanations, because first dates should be casual meetings anyway.
Wear a pink breast cancer bracelet on the second date and see if that inspires the date to ask questions. Don't share too many details immediately if the date asks about the bracelet. Just say casually " I am a a breast cancer survivor" or something similiar.
If the date asks for another meeting more details can be shared on a need to know basis during each date.
Too many intimate details can be overwhelming for anyone in the beginning.

Jackie07 · 05-27-2012, 11:14 AM

Just thought about something else that might be related:

Do we share the story of our past relationships on our first date?

De we share the spiritual/romantic/emotional scars on our first date?

Besides the urge to tell people about our traumatic experiences in life, do we have other urges that should be the priority to share on the first date?

Do we want to present ourselves as someone that's not the true us?

Is dating just a game, a carefully crafted 'first impression' and continued facade...

[Now you know why my husband had waited almost 2 months before he asked me out again...

]

ps. By the way, I love SoCalGal's " it's a long story and you'll tell them at another time" approach.

ElaineM · 05-27-2012, 03:47 PM

No. I don't share those things on the first date. The first date should be about having fun and sharing some time together. Dinner, a movie, a concert, coffee and snacks, or a walk in the park enjoying the scenery together are all good for first dates. If the two people enjoy time together doing wholesome activities like above then they can decide if they want to see each other again. The more personal information should come later and gradually they slowly get to know more about each other. I do not want to know everything about a man on the first date either. I only want to know that he is single, his approximate age, employed or retired with an income, he is a non smoker, he is honest, clean and a decent human being on the first date.

Rolepaul · 05-27-2012, 06:25 PM

From someone of the other gender, I can tell you that the same rules for dating apply for stage 4 as for every other type! Men and women are going always get together, just find the man (or men) that fit your needs. Think of breast cancer survivor as making you a stronger person mentally, a lot of us like women like that.
Nina's husband

ElaineM · 05-27-2012, 08:53 PM

Well said RolePaul !!

Bunty · 05-28-2012, 03:42 AM

I love all your responses! It just shows how rich a life you have all lived! And great to have the male perspective Rolepaul (do you happen to have a single brother in his early to mid 50's?!!)

And Jackie, I was just having a chuckle when I read your last post - I couldn't help but think of Sarah Jessica Parker from early episodes of SITC.

I will take something from all of these posts....

Thanks so much for your interest.

Cheers Marie

suzan w · 05-28-2012, 01:42 PM

Please let us know what happens!!!

lshill929 · 05-29-2012, 02:20 AM

Hi Marie, it’s really great to read that you have made up your mind to enter in the reality once again and taken a step ahead for continuing your life as normal as it was earlier.

Mtngrl · 05-29-2012, 08:24 AM

Maybe it's because we're now looking for jobs and new relationships in the same way (via the Internet), but dating has gotten to be an awful lot like applying for a job, and the first date can be hard to tell from a job interview or audition. (Maybe that's why I stopped--though being in grad school and then being diagnosed with breast cancer might also have something to do with it!)

One good thing about online dating is it's a way to meet a whole lot of people. But that's also a bad thing. It's very impersonal, so it's easy for someone to drop one person and go on to the next, often without even meeting first. It's important not to take any of that personally. But it's also important to craft one's profile and early communications with that in mind--being honest-enough without giving too much information. Finally, and most importantly, it's important to be clear in your own mind about who you are and what you want.

Dating should be fun and low key at first. One nice activity is to go to a museum or art gallery (if you both like such things). You can talk about the exhibits, which might lead naturally to conversations about other things that can help you get to know each other. I also like going to the zoo for an early date.

Love, fun and friendship are important at any stage of life. Marie, I hope you'll keep us posted about your adventures.

CoolBreeze · 05-29-2012, 07:08 PM

I haven't read the responses so forgive me if I'm repeating what's been said.

Why are you dating? Is it for fun and companionship? Or is it for marriage and a deep relationship?

If it's for fun and company, I don't think you owe a casual date any deeply personal information about yourself. I believe in being honest but you are entitled to privacy. I think if you are planning on keeping it light and fun and sparkly and just an enhancement to life and not a heavy romance with marriage at the end, then I would date without telling. Because you are right, I think many men are going to run at the idea of terminal cancer, even if you don't plan on a serious relationship. Of course, I think you should tell him that you are dating for fun and companionship only and you want to keep it light and not to get serious - but you don't have to tell him why.

On the other hand, if you are hoping for marriage and a lasting commitment, then I think you have to tell pretty early on - as soon as you suspect this is the person you want by your side. Having metastatic cancer is so BIG that you can't really have a deep relationship without the other person knowing anyway.

And then, you have to be prepared for the possibility that they will back away or be angry at your not being up front. But, you can't blame them - they have a right to choose their own future. Very few would choose a future with a terminally ill person- although some do.

Rejection? Yes, that is a legitimate fear. You are between a rock and a hard place and there is really no good perfect way to handle it. I too am Stage IV and I honestly do not think I would date anybody with advanced cancer. Maybe when I was young and romantic but now that I know what it entails, no, I wouldn't. It's just too much to deal with.

But, there are people out there who fall in love and get married with cancer every day. And, there are people with cancer who go out and have cosmopolitans and dance and have sex too, and don't think about making a future. Both are okay

.
You are pretty cute in your avatar so I bet you have a lot of offers.

Mtngrl · 05-29-2012, 07:16 PM

I actually brought up the subject of new relationships in my in-person Stage IV group. There were several stories of people with late-stage cancer getting married. And our facilitator had a twist on it. The husband of a woman she knew took her home from her mastectomy, dropped her bag in the foyer, walked out and never came back. He divorced her because he couldn't handle her illness. He remarried and that wife died of cancer. The first wife is fine.

I agree that it needs to be disclosed. I just wouldn't do it on a second date, but I also wouldn't lie. If my date said something like, "have you ever had cancer?" I would not evade the question.

I guess it's a "play it by ear" thing.