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Old 08-07-2013, 03:46 PM   #41
R.B.
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Re: Vitamin D thread -Please use this for your Vit D info.

And another must watch Vitamin D lecture on breast cancer from Grass Roots Health

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=by-MMkep_Yw#at=21

Last edited by R.B.; 08-08-2013 at 03:41 AM..
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Old 08-08-2013, 03:40 AM   #42
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Re: Vitamin D thread -Please use this for your Vit D info.

Another must watch video, particularly for those with at interest in ER positive breast cancer.

Vitamin D may have estrogen inhibition qualities through a number of mechanisms

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j2A9...e_gdata_player
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Old 08-08-2013, 01:21 PM   #43
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Re: Vitamin D thread -Please use this for your Vit D info.

how much should we be taking? im on 2000iud daily
how often should our levels be tested?
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Old 10-04-2013, 02:31 PM   #44
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Re: Vitamin D thread -Please use this for your Vit D info.

HI all (-:

There is more information here http://her2support.org/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=58793

(I started this new / follow-on vitamin D thread on the main board in the hope it may get a wider audience, and over time a greater number of visitors)


roz123 hopefully the additional information of the thread above may help
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Old 12-08-2013, 05:18 AM   #45
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Re: Vitamin D thread -Please use this for your Vit D info.

The recent press comment on vitamin D made my heart sink. The summary is much more measured, and certainly the paper does not warrant the press headlines; maybe the author made statements . . . - I do not know.

The paper reports that many studies associate higher vitamin D with lower occurrence of many diseases.

They failed to manage to link fairly modest supplementation to change in disease profile, which is not altogether surprising for a variety of reasons, including that maybe the levels of supplementation tried were insufficient.

It is very clear that increasing numbers of people are vitamin D deficient; maybe increasing numbers have poor digestion too, but none of this alters the facts that there are only two way to get high level of vitamin D sunshine or supplementation, (even fish at every meal will not provide the sort of vitamin D levels achieved with modest sun exposure, without sunscreen when UVB can penetrate the atmosphere etc etc) and logically if you are not absorbing it or using more because the body is under stress, then surely the answer is more vitamin D, not less ?????? which brings us back to a choice between sunshine or supplementation - there is no other way - and for most the luxury of stripping off a good proportion of our clothes for a little siesta in the sun at midday is not in reality an option, even if the sun obliges and the skies are not too smogy . . . the reality is supplementation may not be optimal but other than sun it is the only "game in town".

Unfortunately I have not seen the full paper as yet as it is expensive to look at them on a regular basis.

5o micrograms=1000 iu is not going to have a huge effect on vitamin d levels as the table on the Grass Roots site shows. http://grassrootshealth.net/ (20 nanograms =50nmol/l), and according to the papers they drew together health benefits are not seen until blood levels get into the 40ng/l +

http://grassrootshealth.net/media/do...art_032310.pdf

An alternate conclusion might have been are there other reasons why people who are supplementing are unexpectedly low in vitamin D if that is what is being implied; do people have poor digestion and so are not absorbing properly / and or were participants taking the supplements regularly (according to Dr Holick by their own admission in one trial no) / and or are higher doses are needed to see significant effect / or is this in any was a reflection in part that the growing number who are obese have a higher vitamin D requirement / or that sun exposure sunscreen blocker use is rising / or dairy intake and or other foods that contain vitamin D is falling / and as mentioned in the paper might those who have illness sub-clinical or full blown illnesses may use more vitamin D . . .

There really does need to be a more measured way of communicating scientific reports to the public - no wonder people are confused - more importantly inaccurate communication will have subtle but important health consequences for a large number of people


Vitamin D status and ill health: a systematic review
Prof Philippe Autier MD a b Corresponding AuthorEmail Address, Prof Mathieu Boniol PhD a b, Cécile Pizot MSc a, Prof Patrick Mullie PhD a c
Summary
Low serum concentrations of 25-hydroxyvitamin D (25[OH]D) have been associated with many non-skeletal disorders. However, whether low 25(OH)D is the cause or result of ill health is not known. We did a systematic search of prospective and intervention studies that assessed the effect of 25(OH)D concentrations on non-skeletal health outcomes in individuals aged 18 years or older. We identified 290 prospective cohort studies (279 on disease occurrence or mortality, and 11 on cancer characteristics or survival), and 172 randomised trials of major health outcomes and of physiological parameters related to disease risk or inflammatory status. Investigators of most prospective studies reported moderate to strong inverse associations between 25(OH)D concentrations and cardiovascular diseases, serum lipid concentrations, inflammation, glucose metabolism disorders, weight gain, infectious diseases, multiple sclerosis, mood disorders, declining cognitive function, impaired physical functioning, and all-cause mortality. High 25(OH)D concentrations were not associated with a lower risk of cancer, except colorectal cancer. Results from intervention studies did not show an effect of vitamin D supplementation on disease occurrence, including colorectal cancer. In 34 intervention studies including 2805 individuals with mean 25(OH)D concentration lower than 50 nmol/L at baseline supplementation with 50 μg per day or more did not show better results. Supplementation in elderly people (mainly women) with 20 μg vitamin D per day seemed to slightly reduce all-cause mortality. The discrepancy between observational and intervention studies suggests that low 25(OH)D is a marker of ill health. Inflammatory processes involved in disease occurrence and clinical course would reduce 25(OH)D, which would explain why low vitamin D status is reported in a wide range of disorders. In elderly people, restoration of vitamin D deficits due to ageing and lifestyle changes induced by ill health could explain why low-dose supplementation leads to slight gains in survival.

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Old 12-08-2013, 05:22 AM   #46
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Re: Vitamin D thread -Please use this for your Vit D info.

It appears vitamin D helps muscle function too . . .


Vitamin D deficiency puts elite ballet dancers at risk of injury
Researchers say vitamin supplements can help ward off injuries caused by long hours inside with little exposure to sunlight

http://www.theguardian.com/science/2...dancers-injury

Vitamin D deficiency caused by their intensive indoor training regime is putting elite ballet dancers at increased risk of injury, a study has found.

Researchers at the Royal National Orthopaedic hospital (RNOH), University of Wolverhampton and the Jerwood Centre at Birmingham Royal Ballet have urged trainers and medical professionals to consider providing dancers with vitamin D supplements during the winter after results showed it had a significant influence on improving muscle function and reducing injury occurrence.

Dr Roger Wolman, consultant in rheumatology and sport and exercise medicine at the RNOH, said: "We know vitamin D [deficiency] can affect the bones. What's become clear … is vitamin D is also important for muscles.

. . .

The research, published on Friday in the Journal of Science and Medicine in Sport, involved 24 dancers at the Birmingham Royal Ballet who dance between six and eight hours a day and a total of 38 hours a week, meaning they get little exposure to sunlight, the main natural source of vitamin D.

Before any were given supplements, all were found to be vitamin D deficient or insufficient (not as severe but still low) during winter and only 15% achieved normal levels during the summer. Subsequently, 17 of the dancers were given oral vitamin D3 and seven were not. Significant increases in muscle strength and vertical jump performance were found among the group taking vitamin D. They also suffered fewer injuries, with 12 reporting no injuries and five a single injury, compared to those not given the supplements, only one of whom suffered no injuries with five reporting one injury and one dancer reporting two.

Although the group assessed was relatively small, Wolman said the results were "still convincing. With years of experience of working with dancers in England, we do see a high number of them come to the clinic with low vitamin D levels". He said the findings could be extrapolated to cover other sports that take place indoors, although many involve at least some outdoor training.

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Old 02-09-2014, 11:57 AM   #47
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Re: Vitamin D thread -Please use this for your Vit D info.

^ Most modern cod liver oil has the vitamin D taken out as part of the refining process and only a small amount put back in viz 400iu per teaspoon as against sometimes the several thousand units present in unrefined oils.

Things are rarely straight forward!
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Old 02-13-2014, 02:28 PM   #48
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Re: Vitamin D thread -Please use this for your Vit D info.



More on this later (-:

From an excellent vitamin D site and resource

http://www.vitamindwiki.com/VitaminDWiki
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Old 04-06-2014, 02:45 PM   #49
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Re: Vitamin D thread -Please use this for your Vit D info.

More from Vitamin D wiki

http://www.vitamindwiki.com/Cancer+-+Breast
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Old 04-06-2014, 03:01 PM   #50
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Re: Vitamin D thread -Please use this for your Vit D info.

^ and this belongs with the post and graph above.

It is hugely significant; it is the only measure I have seen so far of vitamin D levels of groups living as they have for thousands of years, and in dark skinned people who have the equivalent of a factor 15 or more sunscreen built into their skins.

Notwithstanding the very powerful natural sun screen their vitamin D level average 115nmol/l, (and from memory the levels in pregnant women were higher 149nmol/l - there must be another part to this paper, not referenced here).

This dispels the often cited view that people with dark skins do not need as much vitamin D, (and would have significant implications for levels in pregnancy - I will try and find the reference).


http://www.vitamindcouncil.org/blog/...abe-of-africa/

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22264449

Br J Nutr. 2012 Nov 14;108(9):1557-61. doi: 10.1017/S0007114511007161. Epub 2012 Jan 23.
Traditionally living populations in East Africa have a mean serum 25-hydroxyvitamin D concentration of 115 nmol/l.
Luxwolda MF1, Kuipers RS, Kema IP, Dijck-Brouwer DA, Muskiet FA.
Author information
Abstract

Cutaneous synthesis of vitamin D by exposure to UVB is the principal source of vitamin D in the human body. Our current clothing habits and reduced time spent outdoors put us at risk of many insufficiency-related diseases that are associated with calcaemic and non-calcaemic functions of vitamin D. Populations with traditional lifestyles having lifelong, year-round exposure to tropical sunlight might provide us with information on optimal vitamin D status from an evolutionary perspective. We measured the sum of serum 25-hydroxyvitamin D₂ and D₃ (25(OH)D) concentrations of thirty-five pastoral Maasai (34 (SD 10) years, 43 % male) and twenty-five Hadzabe hunter-gatherers (35 (SD 12) years, 84 % male) living in Tanzania. They have skin type VI, have a moderate degree of clothing, spend the major part of the day outdoors, but avoid direct exposure to sunlight when possible. Their 25(OH)D concentrations were measured by liquid chromatography-MS/MS. The mean serum 25(OH)D concentrations of Maasai and Hadzabe were 119 (range 58-167) and 109 (range 71-171) nmol/l, respectively. These concentrations were not related to age, sex or BMI. People with traditional lifestyles, living in the cradle of mankind, have a mean circulating 25(OH)D concentration of 115 nmol/l. Whether this concentration is optimal under the conditions of the current Western lifestyle is uncertain, and should as a possible target be investigated with concomitant appreciation of other important factors in Ca homeostasis that we have changed since the agricultural revolution.

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Old 07-05-2014, 09:00 AM   #51
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Re: Vitamin D thread -Please use this for your Vit D info.

"85 percent less risk of death from Breast Cancer when vitamin D levels higher than 30 ng – May 2012" (In post menopausal women)

http://www.vitamindwiki.com/85+perce...80%93+May+2012




Vitamin D status at breast cancer diagnosis: correlation with tumor characteristics, disease outcome and genetic determinants of vitamin D insufficiency

Carcinogenesis (2012), doi: 10.1093/carcin/bgs187; Received November 29, 2011; First published online: May 23, 2012
Sigrid Hatse*,1, Diether Lambrechts2, Annemieke Verstuyf3, Ann Smeets4, Barbara Brouwers1, Thijs Vandorpe4, Olivier Brouckaert4, Gilian Peuteman2, Annouschka Laenen5, Lieve Verlinden3, Carsten Kriebitzsch3, Anne-Sophie Dieudonné4, Robert Paridaens4, Patrick Neven4, Marie-Rose Christiaens4, Roger Bouillon3 and Hans Wildiers1
1 Catholic University Leuven and University Hospitals, Laboratory of Experimental Oncology and Department of General Medical Oncology, Leuven, Belgium
2 Catholic University of Leuven, Vesalius Research Center, Leuven, Belgium
3 Catholic University of Leuven, Laboratory of Experimental Medicine and Endocrinology, Leuven, Belgium
4 University Hospitals Leuven, Multidisciplinary Breast Center, Leuven, Belgium
5 Catholic University of Leuven, Interuniversity Centre for Biostatistics and Statistical Bioinformatics, Leuven, Belgium
*Corresponding author Sigrid Hatse Contact email: sigrid.hatse@med.kuleuven.be Catholic University Leuven and University Hospitals, Laboratory of Experimental Oncology and Department of General Medical Oncology, Leuven, Belgium

Introduction: We correlated serum 25-hydroxyvitamin D3 (25OHD) levels with tumor characteristics and clinical disease outcome in breast cancer patients and assessed the impact of genetic determinants of vitamin D insufficiency.

Methods: We collected serum from 1800 early breast cancer patients at diagnosis, measured 25OHD by radioimmunoassay and determined genetic variants in vitamin D-related genes by Sequenom. Multivariable regression models were used to correlate 25OHD levels with tumor characteristics. Cox proportional hazard models were used to assess overall survival (OS), disease-specific survival (DSS) and disease-free interval (DFI).

Results: Lower 25OHD serum levels significantly correlated with larger tumor size at diagnosis (p=0.0063) but not with lymph node invasion, receptor status, or tumor grade. Genetic variants in 25-hydroxylase (CYP2R1) and vitamin D-binding protein significantly determined serum 25OHD levels but did not affect the observed association between serum 25OHD and tumor size.

High serum 25OHD (>30 ng/mL) at diagnosis significantly correlated with improved OS (p=0.0101) and DSS (p=0.0192) and additionally had a modest effect on DFI, which only became apparent after at least 3 years of follow-up.

When considering menopausal status, serum 25OHD had a strong impact on breast cancer-specific outcome in postmenopausal patients (hazards ratios for 25OHD >30 ng/mL versus ?30 ng/mL were 0.15 [p=0.0097] and 0.43 [p=0.0172] for DSS and DFI, respectively), whereas no association could be demonstrated in premenopausal patients.

Conclusion: High vitamin D levels at early breast cancer diagnosis correlate with lower tumor size and better OS, and improve breast cancer-specific outcome, especially in postmenopausal patients.
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Old 07-05-2014, 09:03 AM   #52
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Re: Vitamin D thread -Please use this for your Vit D info.

More breast vitamin D and breast cancer related trials on Vitamin D wiki

http://www.vitamindwiki.com/Cancer+-+Breast
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Old 07-07-2014, 02:31 AM   #53
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Re: Vitamin D thread -Please use this for your Vit D info.

A vitamin D centric video looking at vitamin D intake and breast cancer.

There are clearly lots of other potential factors and mechanisms that are not examined here, such as low iodine and omega 3:6 imbalances, genetic differences etc. but it contains some interesting material, and I cannot disagree with the conclusion .


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GG1U...ature=youtu.be
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Old 08-14-2014, 03:25 AM   #54
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Re: Vitamin D thread -Please use this for your Vit D info.

A great highly informative chapter on the photo biology of vitamin D by Holick in this book, most of which can be viewed.

It includes the pathways by which vitamin D itself can act as an antioxidant in the skin.

The book itself is in the medical text book price league, and too new for second hand copies


http://books.google.com/books?id=w7h...in%20d&f=false
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Old 08-24-2014, 02:42 AM   #55
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Re: Vitamin D thread -Please use this for your Vit D info.

Roz, my doctor has me on 5,000 iu daily.
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Old 10-03-2014, 06:02 AM   #56
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Re: Vitamin D thread -Please use this for your Vit D info.

If anybody is in the UK and interested I am speaking at a Royal Society of Medicine food section conference on hidden nutritional deficiencies in my new role as recently appointed Chair of the McCarrison Society, which is a venerable society with its own widely recognized Journal 'Nutrition and Health'.

The Society has a long illustrious history, but is in need of a bit of revamping including a new web site.

I will be looking in whistle-stop fashion at deficiencies in nutrients particularly Iodine, Vitamin D, minerals, and imbalances in Omega 3 and 6 set within the context of the shoreline diet which arguably provided the conditions for out existence.

I am hoping to make the McCarrison Society a forum to bring together the Food Agricultural and Health sectors to the same table, which they never are, to try and bring focus on deficiencies such as Vitamin D, Iodine and secure the implementation of strategies to address them.



This is the link to the conference.


http://www.rsm.ac.uk/events/fhf01

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Old 11-13-2014, 05:32 AM   #57
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Re: Vitamin D thread -Please use this for your Vit D info.

^ Very many thanks to anybody who attended. I understand the RSM copies of presentations to attendees, and I have given them permission to give out my slides. I hope at some point to do a longer presentation with a couple of additional slides that I hope to get put up on the web.


Why researchers keep using small amounts of vitamin D viz 400iu in expensive trials with the expectation of a significant change in outcome (except in groups that are seriously deficient) is somewhat of a puzzle to me.

What I then find most sad is a doctor saying to me (which happened yesterday) for example that they had seen a paper that looked at vitamin d in pregnancy and no effect was seen; I understand the amount trialled was 400iu,which is not in the scale of things going to produce a very significant change in vitamin D levels.

The conversation was fortuitous in so far as it fired me up and I found the papers below which contain very useful data which should be more widely available

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Old 11-13-2014, 05:37 AM   #58
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Re: Vitamin D thread -Please use this for your Vit D info.

This may be of interest to those thinking about supplementing with Vitamin D and wanting information to share with their doctors. Breast cancer is specifically referred to in the discussion part of which I copy below. I also copy some data in healthy populations as to intake and outcome.

The paper is free and in full at the link below:



http://www.nutritionj.com/content/9/1/60

Impact of oral vitamin D supplementation on serum 25-hydroxyvitamin D levels in oncology

Pankaj G Vashi, Kristen Trukova, Carolyn A Lammersfeld, Donald P Braun and Digant Gupta*

"Background

Serum 25-hydroxyvitamin D [25(OH)D] is the major circulating form of vitamin D and a standard indicator of vitamin D status. Emerging evidence in the literature suggests a high prevalence of suboptimal vitamin D (as defined by serum 25(OH)D levels of <32 ng/ml) as well as an association between lower serum levels and higher mortality in cancer. We investigated the effect of oral vitamin D supplementation as a means for restoring suboptimal levels to optimal levels in cancer. "

"In order to put our study in context, we review here 3 studies in breast cancer that have evaluated the impact of vitamin D supplementation on serum 25(OH)D levels. Crew et al. examined the effects of standard-dose vitamin D supplementation on serum 25(OH)D levels in breast cancer patients. They observed that cholecalciferol 400 IU daily for 1 year raised serum 25(OH)D levels only modestly, by less than 3 ng/mL in only a small percentage of premenopausal women (< 15%). Although the RDA of vitamin D in premenopausal women is only 200 IU daily, their study suggested that a dose of 400 IU daily was inadequate in breast cancer patients, even to maintain skeletal health, and was probably too low for meaningful anticancer effects [28]. "


"When comparing it with the vitamin D dose response in healthy individuals, the literature yielded the following results. Talwar et al. showed that supplementation with 800 IU/d vitamin D3 in postmenopausal African American women raised the mean serum 25(OH)D concentration from a baseline of 18.7+/-8.2 ng/mL to 28.5+/-8.6 ng/mL at a 3 month interval [46]. In another study, Barger-Lux et al. showed that in a relatively replete group of white subjects, 1000 IU vitamin D3/d resulted in an increase of 5.2 ng/mL from a mean of 26.8 to 32 ng/mL [45]. Likewise Heaney et al reported a dose response of 0.28 ng/mL per 1 μg/40IU oral vitamin D3 supplemented [47]. Furthermore, Aloia et al. undertook a dose-finding study in African American and white men and women with the objective of investigating an algorithm for raising 25(OH)D concentrations to between 32 and 56 ng/mL. They suggested a dose of 3800 IU for those above a 25(OH)D threshold of 22 ng/mL and a dose of 5000 IU for those below that threshold [16]. "

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Old 11-13-2014, 05:46 AM   #59
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Re: Vitamin D thread -Please use this for your Vit D info.

To convert nmol/l to ng/ml - divide by 2.5 (approx)

or 2.5nmol/l = 1ng/ml

Here is a link where they do it for you.


http://www.endmemo.com/medical/unitc...Vitamin__D.php
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Old 11-13-2014, 05:59 AM   #60
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Re: Vitamin D thread -Please use this for your Vit D info.

This is a highly thought provoking and unusually data rich and so exceptional paper looking at the issue of vitamin D.

The second link; a table looking at vitamin D falls in submariners is highly thought provoking, as are all of the tables.

A definite recommend for a quick scan or more if you have the time for the data it presents.




http://ajcn.nutrition.org/content/69/5/842.full

Vitamin D supplementation, 25-hydroxyvitamin D concentrations, and safety1,2

Reinhold Vieth

Many arguments favoring higher intakes of calcium and other nutrients have been based on evidence about the diets of prehistoric humans (1). Likewise, the circulating 25-hydroxyvitamin D [25(OH)D; calcidiol] concentrations of early humans were surely far higher than what is now regarded as normal. Humans evolved as naked apes in tropical Africa. The full body surface of our ancestors was exposed to the sun almost daily. In contrast, we modern humans usually cover all except about 5% of our skin surface and it is rare for us to spend time in unshielded sunlight. Our evolution has effectively designed us to live in the presence of far more vitamin D (calciferol) than what most of us get now, yet there is no consensus about what vitamin D intakes are optimal or safe.

See corresponding editorial on page 825.

Unlike anything else used in the fortification of foods, the purpose of vitamin D is to correct for what is an environmental deficit (less ultraviolet exposure) and not to correct for lack due to classical nutritional reasons. With a few exceptions reviewed by Takeuchi et al (2), there is little or no vitamin D in the kind of foods that humans normally eat. Therefore, conclusions about the efficacy and safety of vitamin D must be in the context of the role of environmental factors.

Before 1997, the recommended dietary allowance of vitamin D (RDA; 3) for infants and children was 10 μg (400 IU). In essence, the scientific basis for this dose was that it approximated what was in a teaspoon (5 mL) of cod-liver oil and had long been considered safe and effective in preventing rickets (4). The basis for adult vitamin D recommendations has been even more arbitrary. Thirty-six years ago, an expert committee on vitamin D could provide only anecdotal support for what it referred to as “the hypothesis of a small requirement” for vitamin D in adults and it recommended one-half the infant dose, just to ensure that adults obtain some from the diet (5). In England, an adult requirement of only 2.5 μg (100 IU)/d was substantiated on the basis of 7 adult women with severe nutritional osteomalacia whose bones showed a response when given this amount (6). The adult RDA of 5 μg (200 IU)/d was described as a “generous allowance” in the 1989 version of American recommended intakes (3)—but why was this “generous” and in relation to what? It is remarkable that despite the widespread intake of 5 μg (200 IU) vitamin D/d, there is still no published data showing that this dose has any effect on the serum 25(OH)D concentration in adults.



http://ajcn.nutrition.org/content/69...expansion.html

Decline in 25-hydroxyvitamin D [25(OH)D] concentrations under acutely sun-deprived living conditions
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