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Old 01-03-2019, 12:17 PM   #1
CutiePie
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Posts: 24
Question Two Chemo drugs linked to BC spread

Has anyone heard of Chrisbeatcancer.com?

Just read a troubling article regarding Taxol (paclitaxel) and Adriamycin (doxorubicin) CAUSING cancer! These drugs induce tumors to release Exosomes which then circulate in the blood to the lung. If I'm reading it correctly helping cancer cells to multiply.

I'm not sure if I could copy and paste the article here but the author is Michele De Palma. Her quote is “In short, our study has identified a new link between chemotherapy and breast cancer metastasis,” says author Michele De Palma.

Anyone have info or comments on this? I've had both of these chemo drugs as well as Cytox and 10 months of Herceptin. I'm totally grateful to be 13 years out from BC, but I truly believe my current health issues are related to all of the Chemo I had.

I have had issues with my bones and have had both of my hips replaced at age 56, and have had 3 wrist/thumb surgeries for bone issues in one hand. I'm looking at additional surgery on my other wrist/thumb.

Anyone have any info if this is junk science or something I/we should be concerned about? Anyone else suffering with post chemo bone issues?

Thanks for any help.
__________________
Dx: 2005 (pre-men, age 46) IDC Stage 1, no nodes
ER/PR -, Her2 +++
Lumpectomy with sential nodes negative
Chemo ACT, Rads, Herceptin for 10 months
Genetic testing 2008 BRACA 2 positive
Oopthectomy in 2008
Bilateral Mastectomy 2010, Reconstruction with expanders then silicone implants.
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Old 01-03-2019, 03:03 PM   #2
tricia keegan
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Re: Two Chemo drugs linked to BC spread

Cutiepie, I would have disregarded this out of hand straight away, if it were true it would be huge news and in every newspaper and on news tv show. I also had these meds and while they can certainly leave us with some side effects we're both years out from cancer and that is worth the risk to me. As we age we do have bone issue's regardless of cancer or not, I'm sure genes come into that in a huge way. I took hormone therapy for ten years too and felt no better when I stopped, my aches were simply old age catching up with me although I am very active and walk ninety minute's every day. Chemo is not perfect but it's the best we have, the risks were explained to me and I took them and would do the same tomorrow. However I don't believe for a minute that the drugs I had cause cancers to spread and it's a shame we don't have a link to the article but I really would'nt wowrry about it.
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Tricia
Dx July '05 IDC 1.9cm Triple positive 3/9 nodes positive
A/C X 4 ..Taxol/Herceptin x 12 wks then herceptin 1 yr
Rads x 36 ..oophorectomy August '06
Currently taking Arimidex..
June 2011 osteopenia/ zometa x1 yearly- stopped Zometa 2015 as Dexa show normal bone density.
Stopped Arimidex July 2014- Restarted Arimidex 2015 for a further two years on the advice of my Onc.
2014 Normal Dexa scan
2018 Mammo all clear, still NED!
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Old 01-03-2019, 03:11 PM   #3
Becky
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Re: Two Chemo drugs linked to BC spread

https://www.nature.com/articles/s41556-018-0256-3
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Kind regards

Becky

Found lump via BSE
Diagnosed 8/04 at age 45
1.9cm tumor, ER+PR-, Her2 3+(rt side)
2 micromets to sentinel node
Stage 2A
left 3mm DCIS - low grade ER+PR+Her2 neg
lumpectomies 9/7/04
4DD AC followed by 4 DD taxol
Used Leukine instead of Neulasta
35 rads on right side only
4/05 started Tamoxifen
Started Herceptin 4 months after last Taxol due to
trial results and 2005 ASCO meeting & recommendations
Oophorectomy 8/05
Started Arimidex 9/05
Finished Herceptin (16 months) 9/06
Arimidex Only
Prolia every 6 months for osteopenia

NED 18 years!

Said Christopher Robin to Pooh: "You must remember this: You're braver than you believe and stronger than you seem and smarter than you think"
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Old 01-03-2019, 03:19 PM   #4
Becky
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Re: Two Chemo drugs linked to BC spread

It was just published in Nature this month. It is specific to getting chemo before surgery. You can't read the whole article but the abstract is specific about they have tons of work to do to see if there is a relationship generally.

Sometimes studies are done and it is relevant to a certain population of patients and not all patients. For example, Herceptin almost was not marketed because the first studies showed no statistical improvement because they tried it on some women who were not Her2+ so it didn't work too well. This may be significant to a population of very specific women who should get their tumors removed first and then get chemo as they did back in our day. Now they give chemo first then remove the tumor.

Everyday we get a little bit closer! Cure!
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Kind regards

Becky

Found lump via BSE
Diagnosed 8/04 at age 45
1.9cm tumor, ER+PR-, Her2 3+(rt side)
2 micromets to sentinel node
Stage 2A
left 3mm DCIS - low grade ER+PR+Her2 neg
lumpectomies 9/7/04
4DD AC followed by 4 DD taxol
Used Leukine instead of Neulasta
35 rads on right side only
4/05 started Tamoxifen
Started Herceptin 4 months after last Taxol due to
trial results and 2005 ASCO meeting & recommendations
Oophorectomy 8/05
Started Arimidex 9/05
Finished Herceptin (16 months) 9/06
Arimidex Only
Prolia every 6 months for osteopenia

NED 18 years!

Said Christopher Robin to Pooh: "You must remember this: You're braver than you believe and stronger than you seem and smarter than you think"
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Old 01-03-2019, 11:07 PM   #5
donocco
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Re: Two Chemo drugs linked to BC spread

Cutie P

In the science world its publish or perish. We have been taken over by cancer. Just watch TV for an hour. First the box talks to you about colon cancer and measuring the DNA in your stool, Then the Ibrance commercial "I call it my new normal, followed by the Neulasta onpro " after heavy chemo why go back to the doctors office just for a shot etc etc. Its unfortunate but cancer is big business.

Dont read too much detail. You will just scare yourself. Tricia said it well. Without the chemo she wouldnt be here. There is some truth to the scary info. Some truth its not absolute. A lot depends on your immune system after chemo is over. Things like Berberine,
Vitamin C Rieki mushroom, stimulate the immune system and help prevent recurrence. Taking one Ibuprofen 200mg tab maybe 4 times a week could help by blocking cetain pro cancer enzymes. Also the anti-diabetic drug Metformin in a low dose. Talk with your doctor about Ibuprofen and Metformin. You need a prescription for Metformin. You might feel better with these "protections."

For years a low dose aspirin tablet was supposed to protect against against heart attacks. Also cancer. Now they say a daily Aspirin is harmful. I still take it. The science info changes more quickly than the type of Phone which is "in."

Paul
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Old 01-04-2019, 09:26 AM   #6
CutiePie
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Re: Two Chemo drugs linked to BC spread

Thanks everyone, I feel calmer now. I don't usually freak out with these types of stories, guess I just have Post Holiday Blues. I'm going to take Tricia's advice and keep on moving on. Yes I agree the Chemo I had kept me alive so I don't regret it. Cancer is big business we need to keep vigilant and going forward. Thanks for everyone's feedback, I appreciate it.
__________________
Dx: 2005 (pre-men, age 46) IDC Stage 1, no nodes
ER/PR -, Her2 +++
Lumpectomy with sential nodes negative
Chemo ACT, Rads, Herceptin for 10 months
Genetic testing 2008 BRACA 2 positive
Oopthectomy in 2008
Bilateral Mastectomy 2010, Reconstruction with expanders then silicone implants.
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Old 01-05-2019, 04:26 PM   #7
tricia keegan
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Re: Two Chemo drugs linked to BC spread

Thanks Cutie pie and Becky and Paul for explaining this more fully. I knew the chemo I had brought certain risks like heart disease, it was the best on offer at the time and I'm grateful for it. It may well lead to some health issue's in the future but it really was all we had at the time, thankfully our sisters and brothers can and will avail of better meds in the future due to research which we all need to get behind.
__________________
Tricia
Dx July '05 IDC 1.9cm Triple positive 3/9 nodes positive
A/C X 4 ..Taxol/Herceptin x 12 wks then herceptin 1 yr
Rads x 36 ..oophorectomy August '06
Currently taking Arimidex..
June 2011 osteopenia/ zometa x1 yearly- stopped Zometa 2015 as Dexa show normal bone density.
Stopped Arimidex July 2014- Restarted Arimidex 2015 for a further two years on the advice of my Onc.
2014 Normal Dexa scan
2018 Mammo all clear, still NED!
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Old 01-23-2019, 07:18 PM   #8
suzan w
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Re: Two Chemo drugs linked to BC spread

Back in 2005 when I got A/C chemo treatments, I was warned that Adriamycin had been implicated in some leukemias. Low risk for that. I opted for the chemo because I had a very high risk cancer!
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Suzan W.
age 54 at diagnosis
5/05 suspicious mammogram-left breast
5/05 biopsy-invasive lobular carcinoma with LCIS,8mm tumor,stage 1 grade 2, ER+ PR+ Her2+++
6/14/05 bilateral mastectomy, node neg. all scans neg.
Oncotype DX-high risk
8/05-10/05 4 rounds A/C
10/05 -10/06 1 yr. herceptin
arimidex-5 years
2/14/08 started daily self administered injections..FORTEO for severe osteoporosis
7/28/09 BRCA 1 negative BRCA2 POSITIVE
8/17/09 prophylactic salpingo-oophorectomy
10/15/10 last FORTEOinjection
RECLAST infusion(ostoeporosis)
6/14/10 5 year cancerversary!
8/2010-18%increase in bone density!
no further treatments
Oncologist says, "Go do the Happy Dance"
I say,"What a long strange trip its been"
'One day at a time'
6-14-2015. 10 YEAR CANCERVERSARY!
7-16 to 9-16. Extensive (and expensive) dental work done to save teeth. Damage from osteoporosis and chemo and long term bisphosphonate use
6-14-16. 11 YEAR CANCERVERSARY!!
7-20-16 Prolia injection for severe osteoporosis
2 days later, massive hive outbreak. This led to an eventual dx of Chronic Ideopathic Urticaria, an auto-immune disease from HELL.
6-14-17 12 YEAR CANCERVERSARY!!
still suffering from CIU. 4 hospitilizations in the past year

as of today, 10-31-17 in remission from CIU and still, CANCER FREE!!!
6-14-18 13 YEAR CANCERVERSARY!! NED!!
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Old 01-23-2019, 08:45 PM   #9
rhondalea
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Re: Two Chemo drugs linked to BC spread

I'm a little late to the party, but the full PDF is available on ResearchGate, courtesy of its authors.

https://www.researchgate.net/publica..._cancer_models

Just click "Download PDF" and wait. No sign-in is required. If you have trouble, here is a Dropbox link to the copy I downloaded.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/6ivgzcewtq..._2018.pdf?dl=0
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2/6/09 Core needle biopsy: negative; Mammos through 2010: no change
3/30/11 Pea-sized lump in left breast at site of prior biopsy; mammo negative, sonogram not so much
4/14/11 Core needle biopsy: negative for cancer
5/18/11 Excisional biopsy 1.2 cm tumor, LVI, positive margin; ER+60%,PR+20%,HER2/CEP17 5
6/15/11 BMX: Left DCIS & LH; Right ADH; SNB: 2/3 nodes: 1.4 cm and 1 mm; ALND L1&2: 0/10; Stage IIa, Grade 3
7/14/11 CT/Bone scans NED; MUGA 66%
7/19/11 Biweekly dd AC w/Neulasta; done 8/30/11
9/13/11 Transfusion (Hemoglobin 8.6); MUGA 64%
9/20/11 Start Taxol + Herceptin; Taxol done 12/6/2011; continue Herceptin until 9/4/2012
12/27/11 Radiation - 6 weeks; 2/27/2012 - DONE! Yayyyy!
2/29/12 Start Tamoxifen 20 mg/day; continue until 2/28/17
5/16/12 Start five-years Metformin trial
6/19/12 MUGA 61%
8/21/12 Brain MRI NED (head still hurts, brain still fogged)
9/4/12 Herceptin done!
9/6/12 Port out!
7/11/13 Aricept 5mg for cognitive impairment; increased to 10mg as of 8/23/13; back to 5mg 12/2013
5/2014 Add Namenda 7mg
9/2014 Stop Aricept and Namenda; Neuropsychological evaluation
10/24/14 Start cognitive rehabilitation therapy
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Old 04-27-2019, 04:56 PM   #10
Jean
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Posts: 3,154
Re: Two Chemo drugs linked to BC spread

Becky,
Loved Loved reading what you posted, especially
"back in the day" …..

Happy so Happy that you can state, back in the day.
Often it feels like yesterday when I first posted.
As they say, "we have come a long way baby."

Love to all,
Jean
__________________
Stage 1, Grade 1, 3/30/05
Lumpectomy 4/15/05 - 6MM IDC
Node Neg. (Sentinel node)
ER+ 90% / PR-, Her2+++ by FISH
Ki-67 40%
Arimidex 5/05
Radiation 32 trt, 5/30/05
Oncotype DX test 4/17/06, 31% high risk
TOPO 11 neg. 4/06
Stopped Arimidex 5/06
TCH 5/06, 6 treatments
Herceptin 5/06 - for 1 yr.
9/06 Completed chemo
Started Femara Sept. 2006
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Old 04-30-2019, 02:54 PM   #11
tricia keegan
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Re: Two Chemo drugs linked to BC spread

Indeed we have Jean!
__________________
Tricia
Dx July '05 IDC 1.9cm Triple positive 3/9 nodes positive
A/C X 4 ..Taxol/Herceptin x 12 wks then herceptin 1 yr
Rads x 36 ..oophorectomy August '06
Currently taking Arimidex..
June 2011 osteopenia/ zometa x1 yearly- stopped Zometa 2015 as Dexa show normal bone density.
Stopped Arimidex July 2014- Restarted Arimidex 2015 for a further two years on the advice of my Onc.
2014 Normal Dexa scan
2018 Mammo all clear, still NED!
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Old 05-03-2019, 09:45 PM   #12
Catherine
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Re: Two Chemo drugs linked to BC spread

I had A/C and Taxol ( I think I have said this correctly) before surgery. My oncologist wanted to shrink the tumors before surgery. It was recommended by the tumor board and concurred by my surgeon and oncologist. I feel lucky that they had the right plan for me. No recurrence 13 years later. Feeling blessed for good drugs and good doctors.
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Catherine


Found my own lump in the shower
April 2006 at the age of 58
Stage IIB, ER- PR- HER2+++ multi focal tumors, largest 2.3cm
Chemo first: AC/Taxol over 16 weeks
Bilateral mastectomy Sep 06
33 rads after the surgery
1 year of Herceptin completed Dec 07
15 years and no recurrence as of April 2021
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