Question about olive leaf

[michele u]

with all the talk about Oleic acid, i have some Olive Leaf tablets from Nature's way. These are the one Gina recommended. But the ingredients are 12% oleuropein (250mg) and olive leaf 250mg. Is this the same as Oleic acid? I want to get the right stuff

[R.B.]

Olive leaf as a supplement and oleic acid oil are different.

The naming of fats is confusing. I guess olive oil is where they first found this omega nine fat so that is why it is called oleic acid.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oleic_acid

In that it is a straight daisy chain of carbon atoms it is in the same grouping as the omega threes and sixes which are also long straight daisy chains.

You will find oleic acid omega nine in olive oil. It has to be extra virgin ideally and preferably in dark glass bottles. Refined olive oil is high in omega six, and may loose a lot of the other chemicals that are found with "untreated" oils.

Here is a link for olive leaf which I have not looked at and do not know much about http://www.anyvitamins.com/olive_leaf_extract.htm

RB

[Morgan]

I'm finding the whole olive oil thing a bit confusing! I always use organic cold pressed unfiltered extra virgin olive oil (in dark bottle), thinking it is high in Omga 3 but today found a bottle of first cold pressed extra virgin italian olive oil with nutritional value on bottle and was shocked to see per 100ml polyunsaturates 8g of which alpha linolenic (omega3) .6g and linoleic (omega 6) 7.4g. This was a much higher ratio than I would have expected.
Maybe it's just me but would like some input.

Thanks
Morgan

[R.B.]

Morgan

Well done you have been label checking.

You will not find omega threes in olive in significant quantity or indeed in most vegetable oils with exceptions.

Olive oil has omega nine and phenols etc which are reported as reducing the BC risk. I have not seen a explanation as to exactly what the nines do but trials suggest olive helps.

DHA and EPA in oil form are only in fish oil, or some specialist vegetarian products.

So you will now have to find some fish oil too.

RB

[Morgan]

Thanks, I do take omega 3 supplements and have wild salmon but was just concerned with the omega 6, 9 wasn't mentioned on the bottle. I'm fairly new to all the supplements and never know how much of each to take or when, any tips? I'm highly ER+ and HER2+++

Morgan

[R.B.]

Morgan

There are no absolute answers and I cannot give advice beyond read round the subject, search your own prognosis and talk to your medical advisers.

Often trials simply have not been done.

There is a post on articles of interest on DHA intake in general terms.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/ is useful. You can enter your search terms and it will pull up the trials.

This has some useful links on diet. http://her2support.org/vbulletin/sho...ght=greek+diet

and this to
http://her2support.org/vbulletin/sho...st+cancer+diet

I am sorry I cannot be more specific.


RB

[R.B.]

Morgan,

I forgot to mention that the omegas are families. The mother omega three is found in flax seed or oil. (Search on flax seed and talk to your onc - much deabte on this one)

The long chain children DHA and EPA are found in oily fish as you appear to be aware.

So you can look at different ways of getting you fats, UDOs is a 3,6,9 but you get the nine in olive oil, and mother three is found in flax etc.

Yes the body can convert the mother omega three but a large number of things block it so arguably best be prudent.

Omega six is essential but the most difficult to avoid if you used prepared food, grain fed live stock etc.

Omega six is stored in fat so you may have reserves. Breast fat takes months to change gluteal longer.

I am afraid you just have to do lots of reading consult with advisers and make the best decision you can, monitor if possible etc.

RB

[RobinP]

Morgan and Michele,

Flaxseed oil also contains Oleic acid, ... Menendez previously showed that oleic acid ( and GLA) suppresses over-expression of the Her-2/neu gene. Flaxseed oil is also a very rich source of Alpha-linolenic acid (ALA), an Omega-3 polyunsaturated fatty acid. I just thought you may both want to know the efficacy percentages of the various fat/oil additives. The following article addresses that and by far, ALA seems to reduce her2 the most, above EPA and the PUFAs but GLA, found in borage and primrose oil, also follows an efficacy close to ALA.

http://www.cababstractsplus.org/goog...No=20043195802

[michele u]

straight virgin olive oil is very fattening! I took it when going through chemo, but i don't want to get all the fat now. Is there a less fattening way to get Oleic acid?

[R.B.]

Re ALA DHA and EPA.

It is a good point that flaxseed contains oleic acid. It can also contain up to 18% omega six.

If extracted by cold pressing oils may contain other things as well as fats. Olive oil and flaxseed have there own related chemicals.

In olive oil claims have been made that the phenols etc may assist as well as the oleic acid.

It is a question as always of balance. They did not shown a figure for the effect of DHA but used the word profound. Another trial said "Moreover, exogenous supplementation with DHA significantly decreased the expression of Her-2/neu-codified p185(Her-2/neu) oncoprotein (up to 78% reduction in BT-474 cells)."

All three are needed. The ones most likely to be lacking in most diets are DHA and EPA.

Another complication is the influence of direction of the funding eg Olive oil growers, flax seed growers etc which huma nature would suggest would result in the report being written from that perspective.

Figures vary depending which trials you read. What is clear is that a balance of all the threes is essential, and oleic assists.

Further may different plants have additional beneficial properties.


RB

[Barbara2]

Following up with Michele's question:

Is straight virgin olive oil the best way to consume oleic acid? Options?

[R.B.]

It is complicated because their is choice and no absolute answers.

AIM balance omega three and six and ensure you get some long chain omega threes. To do this you will have to label watch and check food contents until you get the gist.

The body can make all fats except the mother omega three and six. Lots of things can block the process including age, so that would be an argument for ensuring a mix.

There are no absolutes. Please discuss dietary change with your doctor.

Within sensible limits less is more but there are different views.

Variety is good as different things contain different fat balances - so a little saturate is ok eg butter coconut small amounts lean meat if you are not vegitarian etc. but scrapings not lashings.

Olive is low in six high in nine and even lower in three. It also has other beneficial things apart from the "lipids" (Fats)

Flax has high three some six some nine. This has a small chart of common high oil sources and a breakdown of contents. http://www.benbest.com/health/essfat.html
But please see posts on flax as much discussion. Whole food sources have as far as possible to be the best starting point.

UDOs has a good reputation and a useful mix.

RB

[RobinP]

I use Flaxseed oil, which is the richest source of the essential fatty acid known as alpha-linolenic acid (ALA) or omega-3 fatty acid. It contains approximately 58% to 60% omega-3 fatty acids and 18% to 20% omega-6 fatty acids. It is estimated that the optimal ratio between omega-3 and omega-6 fatty acids is approximately 1 to 4. Most people are deficient in omega-3 and consume excessive amounts of the omega-6 fats and oils. In fact, studies report that the omega-3/omega-6 ratio for many people in the United States is between 1:20 and 1:30. Flaxseed oil, which contains 3 times more omega-3 than omega-6, may be used to help reverse the imbalance between omega-3 and omega-6.

[StephN]

Michele -
Wanted you to know which of the many offerings of Olive Leaf I have settled on. It is called "Olive Leaf Plus" from Oregon's Wild Harvest. (One thing I like is that the capsules are non-GMO vegetarian.

This particular version has 150mg olive leaf, 150 mg organic red clover tops, 55mg organic astragalus root and 45 mg of olive leaf powdered extract standardized.

The other ingredients are supposed to complement the properties of the olive leaf. Not being a scientist, I can't tell you exactly HOW that is done, but I have taken this off and on since we first had this discussion.

The olive oil and flax oil I use daily without exception.
Anyone have any thoughts on the combination listed above?

[RobinP]

Although, I really believe first in whole food sources, I think that olive leaf may be an alternative Michele, if you are concerned about the fat you are getting from the oil. You know, those of us who are hormonal negative should be on a low fat diet to help reduce relapse, according to the WINS study, so I understand your concerns about fat.
RELATED RESOURCES ON OLEIC OCID, GLA, AND HELPFUL FATS:
http://jnci.oxfordjournals.org/cgi/c...id=QID_NOT_SET
http://annonc.oxfordjournals.org/cgi...tract/mdi090v1
http://www.biomedcentral.com/1471-2407/7/80

http://annonc.oxfordjournals.org/cgi...5/11/1719?etoc

[Gina]

in general, is taken as a preventative measure overall, sort of as a biosynthetic shield, since it is anti-bacterial, anti-fungal, and anti-viral. I never meant for it to replace Omega-3's or Olive oil in any regimen. In the basic "Gina" regimen, it is there to protect us from catching OTHER things while we are on treatment and in the future and of course, to my mind, it is also there helping to fight against what I believe to be is more at the root of her-2 mediated disease, intra-cellular bacteria. Naturally, this is still highly controversial and unproven.

The main reason I picked Olive Leaf for my own personal regimen was for its all - in- one approach to the three big ones: Viruses, Bacteria, and Fungi, including yeasts. I had tested many things in the early years like Blueberries for viruses, echinechea for bacteria, yogurt for fungi, but I was eating all day long...smile...this one little pill seemed highly effective and so cheap and easy to work into my regimen....to this day, I take it EVERY day and have now for many, many years. I have tried many brands, but still use the purple cap Nature's Way brand, although I was interested to try the one Steph has discovered.

In looking back over the so called Gina regimen, I now realize that it is not so important which supplements you use for the various parts, but what is most important, is that you cover all the areas that the regimen hits. For instance, it doesn't seem to matter whether you get the Vitamin A from pumpkin, carrot juice, mangos, cantelope or fish oil, just that you take it in every day...Likewise, it does not seem to matter so much that you get your vitamin D from the sun, from fish oil, or even from Vitamin-enriched milk, dairy or soy. Just get it.

Unless you have digestive issues--say you are taking acid inhibitors which prevent the break down of minerals, in which case you will have to go through the skin, the same is true for magnesium and zinc. Whether you take your mag in via Chocolate or sit in an Epsom salt bath or slurp zinc-rich raw oysters or put your zinc on your feet as in Desitin, matters very little. Just include magnesium and zinc every day. If you get your GLA from evening primrose oil, borage oil, flax seed, who cares?? Just take in a little every day...same goes for omega-3's--pick your poison, olive oil, flax oil, and HERE is one BACON grease...I kid you not...smile...

What I have learned is that all these elements seem to support one of our back - up immune systems that runs more through the Interleukin-2 system than the interleukin -12, which in many cases, may have been disrupted, either by her-2 mediated disease or by the very same chemo treatments we use against it themselves (Herceptin excepted). That is why in SOME cases, I think that phytoestrogens, though controversial, may not be bad as they too, tend to support this back-up fail safe of immunity.

Michele, I have missed our chats...Take care,
Gina

[TSund]

hmmm...so for one on chemo and acid blockers, how can you get magnesium through skin? any alternatives to Epsom salt baths?

THX

TRS