Don't understand echo reading

momo · 10-10-2009, 02:44 AM

My base echo (before treatment) was 59. I had an echo done after 4 Herceptins and it's gone up to 64.

This means nothing to me. Is high or low good? My Onc. said not to worry about echo results and would not explain, but I like to understand what is going on.

Thanks.

Becky · 10-10-2009, 05:23 AM

An echo measures the pumping efficiency of your heart. 50 and above is normal. I think somewhere in the 60s is "fit" and above 70 is for marathon runners or something like that. Herceptin protocol says that your echo must be at least 50 to take the drug. Echos are then done every 3 months to ensure that Herceptin is not effecting the pumping action of the heart. You are doing good.

The two readings you have are very close but the 64 is certainly an improvement over 59 but I would still consider these the same number. It shows that chemotherapy did affect your heart either.

Ellie F · 10-10-2009, 08:00 AM

There are currently plans afoot in the UK to extend the interval between echo's to 4 months.
Bean counters again!
By the way my echo readings did the same as yours
Ellie

Lani · 10-10-2009, 03:12 PM

It seems they always want proof from randomized clinical trials to change treatments EXCEPT when it is about SAVING money rather than SPENDING it.

I have seen no papers claiming echos every 4 months are as good as echos every three months.

suzan w · 10-10-2009, 05:23 PM

Seems like your numbers are remaining steady, which is a good thing!!! My onc did not do echos, instead I had MUGA tests.

Joan M · 10-11-2009, 04:22 PM

Momo,

One of the side effects of Herceptin is congestive heart failure and the echo is one way to measure that by looking at the left ventricle ejection fraction (LVEF), which Herceptin affects. The normal range of the LVEF is 50%-70%. However, the protocal for Herceptin calls for discontinuing the drug if the LVEF falls more than 10% between scans, even if it's not below 50%. Although whether an onc decides to discontinue the drug until the heart bounces back is another question.

A more precise measurement of the LVEF is taken by a MUGA scan, which is a nuclear test that requires contrast.

I used to have MUGAs all the time, but I was having so many scans that I decided to do echos instead even though they're not as precise as the MUGA.

Glad that your echo is normal.

Joan

momo · 10-12-2009, 04:07 AM

Thank you everyone - very helpful.

I have been taking CoQ10. I wonder if that is why mine has gone from 59 to 64?

suzan w · 10-13-2009, 04:26 PM

I took CoQ too, and am still taking it!

alicem · 10-14-2009, 08:50 AM

How much CoQ10 do you take?

I found some at Costco, but there were several different doses that I was confused. I had asked my oncologist about it but he said he saw no reason for me to take it. I would like to anyway, I figure it can't hurt.

Thanks, Alice

chrisy · 10-14-2009, 10:15 AM

I've been on various Her2 targeted agents for 5 years. During this time, my LVEF has fluctuated up or down a little bit, usually somewhere in the 60's. Once I had a 78, once it was in the 50's.

I was worried when I got the low reading (until the next test when it bounced back up). Years later when it jumped from 68 to 78, I didn't get all excited because I "knew" it was a bogus reading.

In my opinion, the test is not a precision thing. It is somewhat dependent upon the skill of the technician and how "difficult" the study is (mine is difficult because I have a left implant). You want to be within a normal range, but my experience has been to not get too worried about minor fluctuations either direction. I would be concerned about a downward trend, but one test isn't a trend.

I have found it helps to take CoQ10, and I do take it as well as try to do all the normal things to have a healthy heart.

momo · 10-15-2009, 12:03 PM

alichem - I've no idea how much CoQ10 to take. I started on 100mg, but don't like the gels so now have 30mg which I thought is better than nothing and easier to swallow!

Hopefully someone will know.