HonCode

Go Back   HER2 Support Group Forums > her2group
Register Gallery FAQ Members List Calendar Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 02-01-2018, 05:14 AM   #1
sarah
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: france
Posts: 1,645
caner vaccine

https://med.stanford.edu/news/all-ne...s-in-mice.html

Is this another case of wishing we were mice! or is this really exciting?
Sarah
__________________
sarah is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-01-2018, 10:32 AM   #2
donocco
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2013
Posts: 350
Re: caner vaccine

Sarah

Probably both. What Im giving you is an opinion not necessaril 100% fact but Id be very surprised if my opinion wasnt based a a good deal of fact.

The Insurance Control of Medicine has changed everything and not for the better. Insurance companies pay for the drugs. Youknow how expensive cancer drugs are. A capsule of whatever for breast cancer has an actual value of less than a penny. Yet it sells without Insurance "protection for 900 dollars a capsule. Why would the Insurance company that does virtually all of the paying
allow the drug company to charge 900 dollars a capsule when the insurance company could set the price since they pay? My answer is that the exorbitant price of drugs keeps you 100% dependent on having health insurance. The insurance company recoups their money by the exorbitant premiums that are always going up.

Then there is the FDA whose powers are totally controlled by congress. In simple terms congress is their "boss." To keep your job how you have to please your boss. This is not rocket science. Congress has two bosses the people who elect them and the lobbiests who give them campaign contributions. The second (the money) is the more important one to the average politician because without the money for campaign adds before election day they are unlikely to be elected.

Who are the lobbys in the health care system? The big ones are the drug companies and the Insurance companies and the FDA has to please them both. Once a drug is approved the drug company makes a lot of money and gives some of this as lobby money to the politicians who make the laws.

How does the FDA please the insurance lobby? By approving the new drug for one purpose (remember I am talking about Oncology drugs) and the FDA memo will read "Cancerkill" (the new drug) is FDA approved for advanced cases of cutaneous T cell lymphoma after drugs A B C and D are tried. This limits the insurance payment for the drug because

1. Subcutaneous T cell lymphoma is very rare

2. Even if you have a patient with this rare cancer you cant use Cancerkill untill 3 or four other drugs have been tried.

To be fair to the FDA they always approved a drug for one purpose but since the people who used the drug paid for the drug (not an insurance company) the drug had to be affortable by the people who are using it. If Cancerkill capsules cost 900 dollars a capsule and you take one a day for the rest of your life, which pt could afford 27000 dollars month after month. Before the insurance takeover of medicine a Cancerkill capsule might cost 4 dollars a capsule. Remember the ingredient value of a Cancerkill capsule is less than a penny.

Once a drug is approved an oncologist could use it for any kind of cancer legally. Suppose Cancerkill could control breast, colon, liver and lung cancer. Since the drug is unaffortable this means little.

This vaccine sounds exciting. Suppose one shot could control every kind of possible cancer. Of course this idea is a very ridiculous. But suppose it could.
Each shot of the vaccine would cost over a million dollars and it would be FDA approved for some advanced cancer in the last stages.

I would be delighted to betotally wrong and diagnosed with Paranoia but I dont think I am. This has to change. But how. I doubt Socialized Medicine is the answer. This is why I do so much research on alternative things like copper reduction and Low dose Naltrexone, Coenzyme Q10 etc.

Paul
donocco is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-05-2018, 06:04 AM   #3
sarah
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: france
Posts: 1,645
Re: caner vaccine

Yes until the US has a universal healthcare system like what we have here in France (continually rated the best!), drugs will be very expensive still there are scientists like Dr. Slamon seeking real cures. There's a Netflix series "Dirty Money" that has one episode that showcases one egregious company - Valient, the episode I think is "Drug Short" because short sellers brought it down. I wish it had investigated all the companies but that's not how the series works. Good series. The "Cartel Bank" one focusing on HSBC was amazing. Obviously the government should be able to negotiate drug prices, which is against the law now. Until people turn away from greed and how much money they can make and decide it is worthwhile to do good and help everyone, prices of life saving drugs will continue to cost more. In "Dirty Money" a life saving drug that cost relatively little for an orphan disease, suddenly cost $350,000 a year! Basically a death sentence for many. Think if insurance didn't pay for Herceptin? That would be a death sentence for many. What to do about this? The Clintons tried in 1997 to create a universal healthcare system and insurance companies waged a great propaganda campaign that killed it. Bernie Sander voted against that idea back then. Luckily today he seems to be for it but maybe too late? I am so thankful to live in a country that believes healthcare is a right not a privilege and I can state that it's pretty great. I was treated in the US and then in France for cancer and France was more thorough and better. Surprised? and the sicker you are, the more you are covered! You can bet the French government negotiates its drugs. It saddens me that people die because they cannot afford healthcare. I don't know what the solution is. Drug companies need to pay for R&D and make their investors money but patients need to be able to afford the drugs. Should patents be longer? Something needs to change, drugs are too expensive. By the way, many Americans don't know this but the American government pays many times what European universal healthcare countries pay for healthcare - try to explain that! and I can chose my doctor, go to any doctor anywhere in France I want to. an no long waits, when it's urgent, you are taken immediately.
__________________
sarah is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-05-2018, 11:19 AM   #4
donocco
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2013
Posts: 350
Re: caner vaccine

Sarah

Dr. Slamon may be and probably is a very ethical scientist. Lets assume he produces a "vaccine" that shows a very positive effect against a variety of cancers. He cannot legally use this vaccine in the United States on cancer patients until it is FDA approved. Usually the approval process in fact always takes about 15 years as the drug goes through the various clinical trials.and the cost is about 400 million dollars. Im going by memory so dont quote me. Dr Slamon doesnt have this kind of money to get FDA approval for his vaccine. Only the major drug companies do. If you accept the "lobby money theory I proposed this may be deliberate on the FDAs part. If you were to ask the FDA they would say "we are concerned about patient safety. Possibly this is true but with cancer there may have to be a different method of cancer drug approval.

The FDA is not all powerful like many think. In 1994 they tried to take the supplements that many on the board take off of the market ie Vitamin C 1000mgs, Vitamin E 400 units and up, Vitamin D greater than 400 units and virtually all of the herbs, mushrooms, that people take.

There was a huge public outcry. People in the know told their friends that the FDA is controlled by congress and all of these people angrily called their congresspeople. I imagine they were threatened with not being re-elected if they didnt force the FDA to back off. Guess what? They did. They passed a law, allowing supplements, I forgot the name. I think it kinda sorta rhymes with the name O-Shea

Paul
donocco is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-06-2018, 05:16 AM   #5
sarah
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: france
Posts: 1,645
Re: caner vaccine

Understood but it's been proven that some supplements have none or next to none of the ingredients supposedly in them, there's a consumer group that does tests in America that is probably good to belong to, I live in France so don't belong to it but a friend periodically looks things up for me. Also fish oil can sometimes be rancid! So although I'm all in favor of supplements, I would like to be sure what they say is in them, is in fact in them. Today too many things including important drugs are made in China and let's face it, that's not an honest country, dogs died from fancy dog food (IAMS) that was handled or manufactured there. If big pharma starts to have more drugs made there, we will be in serious trouble. We need more consumer protections, not less. Price, safety, availability, innovation - these are all problems to solve and to solve with moral considerations. I agree Dr. Slamon couldn't do it on his own, manufacturing and distrubition and publicity were needed but if you see the film, even Genetech who made a fortune off it, stopped supporting him because they didn't believe him, luckily a rich patient stepped in. Also the FDA had said he had to prove it worked for all bc but of course it didn't. Obviously flexibility is needed. Watch "Dirty Money" the Netflix series. I actually think the health insurance companies are more villainous than big pharma who at least are trying to come up with new drugs. My insurance in America paid for my operation and then dropped me! so luckily I was moving to France, a more ethical country about health because imagine my trying to find a new insurance in America? Wouldn't cover cancer, that's for sure.
__________________
sarah is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 10:37 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Copyright HER2 Support Group 2007
free webpage hit counter