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06-09-2009, 06:53 AM
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#1
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Guest
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Biopsy of Mets shows hormone rec neg?
Has anyone else had mets biopsied and Her2 came back neg when primary was Her2pos.
I just found this out yesterday at MD Anderson .. So for 3 years Ive been treated as pos but Im triple neg. Interesting.
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06-09-2009, 07:56 AM
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#2
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Senior Member
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 4,778
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that is not the only way to interpret the facts
it may be that after being challenged by all these treatments, the cancerous cells which survived were not those that were vulnerable to herceptin, etc (those were killed) but those that were able to mutate so that they were not (or, alternatively, those which had that phenotype predating the treatment and now can multiply and utilize nutrients without the competition of the cancer cells with the other phenotypes.)
Think of it like a lawn with several types of weeds in it. If you use a weed killer effective only against one or two types of weeds, the other weeds that were not vulnerable to the treatment will survive and thrive
Dr. Stephanie Jeffries of Stanford has been looking at the phenotypes of circulating tumor cells of those with metastatic breast cancer. She found triple negative CTCs floating around in the blood of Stage IV patients with her2+ breast cancer (at least primarily) while they were still being treated with herceptin.
Smart little buggers, those cancer cells!
In addition there are epigenic changes (not requiring mutations) that can turn ER- breast cancers ER+ and vice versa. New treatments can try to reverse those epigenetic changes.
They are now finding treatments which seem to work on triple negatives (PARP inhibitors, cisplatin, EGFR inhibitors) so that is not to say there won't be tools to attack your new cancer type. See if your doctor can try to determine if there are markers on your new cancer cells which might point to the right direction to take eg. if your tumor cells are EGFR + etc.
Good luck, and don't worry...her2 support supports those exher2s too!!!
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06-09-2009, 10:52 AM
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#3
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Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2005
Posts: 3,519
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My her2 status didn't change, but my ER+ status went to neg upon recurrence...
__________________
Brenda
NOV 2012 - 9 yr anniversary
JULY 2012 - 7 yr anniversary stage IV (of 50...)
Nov'03~ dX stage 2B
Dec'03~ Rt side mastectomy, Her2+, ER/PR+, 10 nodes out, one node positive
Jan'04~ Taxotere/Adria/Cytoxan x 6, NED, no Rads, Tamox. 1 year, Arimadex 3 mo., NED 14 mo.
Sept'05~ micro mets lungs/chest nodes/underarm node, Switched to Aromasin, T/C/H x 7, NED 6 months - Herceptin only
Aug'06~ micro mets chest nodes, & bone spot @ C3 neck, Added Taxol to Herceptin
Feb'07~ Genetic testing, BRCA 1&2 neg
Apr'07~ MRI - two 9mm brain mets & 5 punctates, new left chest met, & small increase of bone spot C3 neck, Stopped Aromasin
May'07~ Started Tykerb/Xeloda, no WBR for now
June'07~ MRI - stable brain mets, no new mets, 9mm spots less enhanced, CA15.3 down 45.5 to 9.3 in 10 wks, Ty/Xel working magic!
Aug'07~ MRI - brain mets shrunk half, NO NEW BRAIN METS!!, TMs stable @ 9.2
Oct'07~ PET/CT & MRI show NED
Apr'08~ scans still show NED in the head, small bone spot on right iliac crest (rear pelvic bone)
Sept'08~ MRI shows activity in brain mets, completed 5 fractions/5 consecutive days of IMRT to zap the pesky buggers
Oct'08~ dropped Xeloda, switched to tri-weekly Herceptin in combo with Tykerb, extend to tri-monthly Zometa infusion
Dec'08~ Brain MRI- 4 spots reduced to punctate size, large spot shrunk by 3mm, CT of torso clear/pelvis spot stable
June'09~ new 3-4mm left cerrebellar spot zapped with IMRT targeted rads
Sept'09~ new 6mm & 1 cm spots in pituitary/optic chiasm area. Rx= 25 days of 3D conformal fractionated targeted IMRT to the tumors.
Oct'09~ 25 days of low dose 3D conformal fractionated targeted IMRT to the bone mets spot on rt. iliac crest that have been watching for 2 years. Added daily Aromasin back into treatment regimen.
Apr'10~ Brain MRI clear! But, see new small spot on adrenal gland. Change from Aromasin back to Tamoxifen.
June'10~ Tumor markers (CA15.3) dropped from 37 to 23 after one month on Tamoxifen. Continue to monitor adrenal gland spot. Remain on Tykerb/Herceptin/Tamoxifen.
Nov'10~ Radiate positive mediastinal node that was pressing on recurrent laryngeal nerve, causing paralyzed larynx and a funny voice.
Jan'11~ MRI shows possible activity or perhaps just scar tissue/necrotic increase on 3 previously treated brain spots and a pituitary spot. 5 days of IMRT on 4 spots.
Feb'11~ Enrolled in T-DM1 EAP in Denver, first treatment March 25, 2011.
Mar'11~ Finally started T-DM1 EAP in Denver at Rocky Mountain Cancer Center/Rose on Mar. 25... hallelujah.
"I would rather be anecdotally alive than statistically dead."
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06-09-2009, 01:48 PM
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#4
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Guest
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You are correct Lani
Thanks Lani,
I just spoke with my Onc. here in Louisiana who told me the exact thing you just posted thank you. Those cancer cells are sneaky buggers.
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06-09-2009, 02:14 PM
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#5
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Senior Member
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: South East Wisconsin
Posts: 3,431
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Not to mention the fact that individual tumors are heterogeneous and a single biopsy might only give part of the picture. And if there is more than one met, is a single biopsy adequate?
Consider the her2 serum ELISA for additional info on that issue.
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06-09-2009, 10:54 PM
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#6
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Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2005
Posts: 3,519
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What Rich said... that's what my surgeon and Onc told me when my ER status seemed to change.
__________________
Brenda
NOV 2012 - 9 yr anniversary
JULY 2012 - 7 yr anniversary stage IV (of 50...)
Nov'03~ dX stage 2B
Dec'03~ Rt side mastectomy, Her2+, ER/PR+, 10 nodes out, one node positive
Jan'04~ Taxotere/Adria/Cytoxan x 6, NED, no Rads, Tamox. 1 year, Arimadex 3 mo., NED 14 mo.
Sept'05~ micro mets lungs/chest nodes/underarm node, Switched to Aromasin, T/C/H x 7, NED 6 months - Herceptin only
Aug'06~ micro mets chest nodes, & bone spot @ C3 neck, Added Taxol to Herceptin
Feb'07~ Genetic testing, BRCA 1&2 neg
Apr'07~ MRI - two 9mm brain mets & 5 punctates, new left chest met, & small increase of bone spot C3 neck, Stopped Aromasin
May'07~ Started Tykerb/Xeloda, no WBR for now
June'07~ MRI - stable brain mets, no new mets, 9mm spots less enhanced, CA15.3 down 45.5 to 9.3 in 10 wks, Ty/Xel working magic!
Aug'07~ MRI - brain mets shrunk half, NO NEW BRAIN METS!!, TMs stable @ 9.2
Oct'07~ PET/CT & MRI show NED
Apr'08~ scans still show NED in the head, small bone spot on right iliac crest (rear pelvic bone)
Sept'08~ MRI shows activity in brain mets, completed 5 fractions/5 consecutive days of IMRT to zap the pesky buggers
Oct'08~ dropped Xeloda, switched to tri-weekly Herceptin in combo with Tykerb, extend to tri-monthly Zometa infusion
Dec'08~ Brain MRI- 4 spots reduced to punctate size, large spot shrunk by 3mm, CT of torso clear/pelvis spot stable
June'09~ new 3-4mm left cerrebellar spot zapped with IMRT targeted rads
Sept'09~ new 6mm & 1 cm spots in pituitary/optic chiasm area. Rx= 25 days of 3D conformal fractionated targeted IMRT to the tumors.
Oct'09~ 25 days of low dose 3D conformal fractionated targeted IMRT to the bone mets spot on rt. iliac crest that have been watching for 2 years. Added daily Aromasin back into treatment regimen.
Apr'10~ Brain MRI clear! But, see new small spot on adrenal gland. Change from Aromasin back to Tamoxifen.
June'10~ Tumor markers (CA15.3) dropped from 37 to 23 after one month on Tamoxifen. Continue to monitor adrenal gland spot. Remain on Tykerb/Herceptin/Tamoxifen.
Nov'10~ Radiate positive mediastinal node that was pressing on recurrent laryngeal nerve, causing paralyzed larynx and a funny voice.
Jan'11~ MRI shows possible activity or perhaps just scar tissue/necrotic increase on 3 previously treated brain spots and a pituitary spot. 5 days of IMRT on 4 spots.
Feb'11~ Enrolled in T-DM1 EAP in Denver, first treatment March 25, 2011.
Mar'11~ Finally started T-DM1 EAP in Denver at Rocky Mountain Cancer Center/Rose on Mar. 25... hallelujah.
"I would rather be anecdotally alive than statistically dead."
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06-14-2009, 05:50 AM
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#7
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Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 1,851
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My original bc was HER2+ and ER-. I've had two mets. The lung met was HER2+ but the brain met wasn't. The mets were also ER-.
__________________
Diagnosed stage 2b in July 2003 (2.3 cm, HER2+, ER-/PR-, 7+ nodes). Treated with mastectomy (with immediate DIEP flap reconstruction), AC + T/Herceptin (off label). Cancer advanced to lung in Jan. 2007 (1 cm nodule). Started Herceptin every 3 weeks. Lung wedge resection April 2007. Cancer recurred in lung April 2008. RFA of lung in August 2008. 2nd annual brain MRI in Oct. 2008 discovered 2.6 cm cystic tumor in left frontal lobe. Craniotomy Oct. 2008 (ER-/PR-/HER2-) followed by targeted radiation (IMRT). Coughing up blood Feb. 2009. Thoractomy July 2009 to cut out fungal ball of common soil fungus (aspergillus) that grew in the RFA cavity (most likely inhaled while gardening). No cancer, only fungus. Removal of tiny melanoma from upper left arm, plus sentinel lymph node biopsy in Feb. 2016. Guardant Health liquid biopsy in Feb. 2016 showed mutations in 4 subtypes of TP53. Repeat of Guardant Health biopsy in Jana. 2021 showed 3 TP53 mutations, BRCA1 mutation and CHEK2 mutation. Invitae genetic testing showed negative for all of these. Living with MBC since 2007. Stopped Herceptin Hylecta (injection) treatment in March 2020. Recent 2021 annual CT of chest, abdomen and pelvis and annual brain MRI showed NED. Praying for NED forever!!
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