OK my opinion...Like it or not

[Sherryg683]

My friend Susan died at age 40 and left behind 2 teenage boys. Her husband started dating within months of her death. Her children were put on the backburner. One of them said to me.."i've not only lost my mother, I feel like I've lost my father too". To me this is unthinkable that he was not there for them when they needed him most. One of them got into drugs seriously while he was making himself feel better. Can I "judge" his action...I can sure have my opinion, if you call that judging. I would hope that if I died, my husband would consider what's "best" not only for HIMSELF but for the people that we love, our family and our familys feelings, even friends of the loved one. It's not always about what's best just for "us". If the world were ran like that, we'd all be in trouble. When someone dies, it is not just the spouse that suffers. I think of my husbands secretaries parents when they received the call from their "son-in law" a little more than a month after she died telling them that he was dating someone. They were so hurt and devistated . I'm sorry, this is just plain disrespectful. Personally, I cannot see how jumping into another relationship right after your spouse has died could possibly be best for anyone. I can understand being lonely, hurt and devistated and usually good decisions are not made when feeling like this. I also question the intentions and character of someone who would get involved with someone who's spouse had just died. I think that's why there should be some space, a grieving period, so that everyone involved can heal and be helped. Then of course move on with your life. Susans husband told everyone that he had been "grieving" for Susan for a year (the time she was sick). That was why he was so ready to jump out and move on with another woman. Everyone thought it was a bunch of bull and suspected him of seeing this woman while Susan was sick. Her children, family and friends suffered dearly from his actions, which were just plain out wrong and selfish. I still have to believe there is a right way and wrong way of doing things.
sherryg

[Mary Jo]

Yes Sherry you can surely have your opinion as you have and so have I.

Of course, children should not be put on the back burner and of course they should be the priority. That's a no brainer. However, and very unfortunately, that is not always the case. However, there are also those who do not have young children or have no children. I know people in both catagories. They started dating fairly quickly after their spouse had passed. Knowing these individuals very well, and knowing the love they had for their spouse, it would be very wrong of myself or others to judge them on the basis of what we see as wrong or right.

Again I repeat, "until any of us have walked a mile in someone elses shoes, who are we to judge." (paraphrased by me)

The world is a hard place....and people go through some tough things......I think we need to be more understanding and forgiving of others. This is a cancer support board, for goodness sake, lets quit all the bashing and name calling and support one another.

Peace and love to each of you....

Mary Jo

[nitewind]

I think that because this is a cancer support board that's why it bothers most of us so much. We can easily put ourselves in the place of the love one who lost the battle. No one wants to think that they can be so easily replaced especially by one who declared such love and total devotion to us. We are all human, we know what we may face. The disease in itself is horrible and then your mind starts to wander about how soon you'll be set aside as if you really didn't matter that much anyway.

Maryjo, I understand what you are saying, my friend. But we, as the patients, are hurt to easily when we hear of a replacement so soon. Then we dwell on our own situations. It can become very depressing.
I'm so glad that we can discuss this subject together.
I love you all

[Sherryg683]

Susan, my thoughts exactly. It is very depressing to a lot of us that are fighting for our lives to hear of spouses moving on so quickly. And with this being a support group, I think there should be a little more sensitivity placed on the feelings of those of us that it would and does upset. What I'm saying is before announcing to the whole board that you have moved on, found a new love and are happier than ever within months of your spouses passing, please consider it may hurt quite a few people here. It has been done more than once and has upset more than just myself. Not everyone is quite so excited and joyful when then happens. I went out on the limb when I posted this, fully knowing not everyone would be happy I did. But I think it had to be said...now I am done...sherry

[Faith in Him]

I agree, Nitewind, we are easily hurt. It is the extra baggage that comes with cancer.

I can't help but be hurt. I dreamed of my children before they were even born. I live everyday for them. The thought of someone else being there for their high school graduation, their wedding day and holding my grandchild for the first time, is beyond devastating to me. I want to be there. But I know that if this is not possible then in time my husband should remarry. Does it hurt any less? No. I am willing to be reasonable about this. I can even find good reasons why my husband should remarry. But it is still very, very painful to think about.

I think these feelings are huge for a lot of us and should be discussed on a cancer support board. It is the cancer that has me reflecting on these issues.

Tonya

[Ceesun]

Sherry and Friends, Let me just say that I have pondered this as well. I credit you with bringing up this topic as it engenders so many feelings. I have seen colleagues do the same things and yes, it bothers me...a lot. I think we all have the right to express our thoughts--that can be helpful in and of itself. Being honest and expressing true feelings is never wrong--especially in this protective environment of the board. That is just my humble opinion. Ceesun

[Mary Jo]

Tonya, your feelings are so right on and so normal. Of course, we all would feel awful (and do) over the thought of someone else loving our husbands, or wives, or raising our children. I totally get that and totally understand that. I would feel no different.....the only thing I want to make clear is that for those who do move on and find "love" again that is their right....It isn't up to us to judge how long someone should mourn their lost spouse....it isn't up to us to decide how long is long enough......or to ask them to think before they announce here that they have found love.

As I continue to say......."until we have walked a mile in their shoes, who are we to judge."

That statement has nothing at all to do with people feeling sad at the prospect of being "gone" and someone else raising their children or loving their spouse. Absolutely nothing....but for those who come to this board or into our lives and "announce that they have moved on and found love again" - I am happy for them and feel they have the same right. It isn't my place to decide if they waited long enough.

I'm not usually one to do battle here at her2support but in this instance feel I am standing up for a dear friend among us and feel the need to stand up for that individual. This topic must really hurt that individual and that makes me sad. Very sad.

[nitewind]

None of us want to do battle here on the board, there is no need to. A lot of us feel sad about this subject and I don't think that anyone is judging someone else. When we are going thru this terrible disease, our feeling are right there on the edge and it's hard to think about a lot of things. I feel that this board is to help a cancer victim fight and face whatever comes their way and try to build them up and to support them.
The subject wasn't about our spouses ever finding love again, just like the rest of you, I would want my husband to go on with his life too. But if he did that in a very short period of time, my family would feel like they were slapped in the face and they, too, would be very hurt.
I'm not judging. When you've been close to a situation for a long period and something like this happens, well, I don't know about you guys but it made me sit down and cry. If crying and being hurt means I'm judging, then so be it. But, again, I don't think I am.

[alicem]

I agree with you Mary Jo. I have felt at odds with some of what is being said here because I wonder if there is something wrong with me. I personally do not have a problem with my husband moving on and finding someone else to love - even IF it were to be one week later!! You just can't "plan" when that is going to happen. I didn't follow a "plan" when I met him, it just happened. My view on this is tempered by the fact that it is my 100% desire for him to be happy his whole life. If moving on and falling in love with someone else will accomplish that, I am OK with that. Maybe it is easier for me to say that because our 3 children are grown and on their own. Yet, if they were still young, I would trust that he would marry someone wonderful who would take care of them for me. He would need help. Life is hard enough as it is. I choose to look at it from the perspective that he would not be replacing me, he has already told me that there is no one on the face of this earth that could do that. He would just be starting a new and different chapter of his life - not rewriting the book.

When my mother died in 1999, I saw how sad, hurt & depressed my father was. He lived 10 years without her and was never the same. Somehow the joy was taken out of his life. I would never wish that for my husband, and I don't think anyone of you who have posted would either. I think part of the discussions here is all about timing. But I wonder, what if the perfect person to take away the pain from my loved one came into their life - but it happened to be just 1 month after my passing. Just because it was "too soon" would that make it wrong; would it be better to live a life unhappy? Is 1 month + 1 day too soon? What about 2 months? 6 months? 3.545 years?

What Mary Jo is saying, and I am agreeing with - it is up to each individual to decide what matters to them & discuss their feelings with their own loved ones. Openly communicate what matters to YOU. Please remember that everyone's opinion here is VALID because everyone's circumstances and feelings are different, but no one can be wrong when it comes to situations like this!!!

[Yorkiegirl]

Mary Jo wrote>>>.....the only thing I want to make clear is that for those who do move on and find "love" again that is their right....It isn't up to us to judge how long someone should mourn their lost spouse....it isn't up to us to decide how long is long enough......or to ask them to think before they announce here that they have found love.

As I continue to say......."until we have walked a mile in their shoes, who are we to judge." <<<

Mary Jo I totally agree with this statement. I sat on my fingers BUT I just had to to say I agree with what you said.

[Lien]

I think that if there are no kids involved, the spouse who lost his or her partner has to decide for him/herself how long they need to mourn. Maybe they make a mistake, maybe they get it right. But it's nothing to do with us.

If there are kids, we should have a say in the matter. And it would depend on the children and their needs.

Just my 0,02

Jacqueline

[Mary Jo]

I would like to thank Sherry for starting this post. Yes, it was controversial, but hey, we can take it. Controversary abounds here at her2support often times....and it's all good! Even when we don't agree...feelings are shared....hashed out......and on we go!

This post moved me more so because some of my friends here at her2support, are among those who have found love and moved on. Also, there are others in my life here, who have done the same. One of the things a friend, just recently expressed to my husband and I is "I think I found love again but I am so afraid of what others may think." This person is a wonderful man who lost his wife at age 48. He loved her. She loved him. Sadly, she is gone....He isn't. The last thing he needs, (or anyone else in that same situation) is others deciding for him when the right time is.

Thanks Sherry for sharing your heart and being honest. You were heard and understood by many. Many have the same fears about this as you do and thankfully you can share those feelings with one another. That is a good thing.

Love and peace among us all...

Mary Jo

[Jackie07]

Since there are very few 'men' on the Board, and even fewer have participated in the discussion, I decided to ask my husband about his opinion. And here's what he said over the phone (at my Father-in-law's house):

Remember what the Old Man replied to Kuai-cheng King in the movie 'Kung Fu'? When the young apprentice showed his 'impatience' about 'time' and complained about his having been there for a long time, the Old Master asked him, "How long?". Then young 'King' caught himself and replied, "Not very long."

Another quote we love to use in our conversation is the one from the movie 'IQ' when Einstein, his niece and her future husband (both were also accomplished scientists) discussed the 'relativity' of time. Time 'froze' when people were falling in love, time is 'relative'...

About the concern of children, hubbie's comment is that 'making yourself happy and staying happy will set an example for the children to know that it is 'OK' to be happy.

[Faith in Him]

I wrote a response but have since decided it was time for me to let this one go.


Love to all of you.

Tonya

[MJo]

This is an interesting topic. I don't have a husband or children, but the pain of someone behaving badly can affect family members for generations. I like to think that all my married sisters have husbands who, if the worst happens, will act wisely and put their children's needs at least on par with their own. But there are some real horndogs out there.

In my family's case, breast cancer skipped a generation. I am the first of my generation to get it. But five of my great aunts -- all in my mother's family -- died of breast cancer . I remember one of the cases because my great aunt was around my mother's age. She was the youngest of 11! Her husband moved in with his girlfriend while my aunt was dying of metastatic breast cancer in the early 1960s. He would stop by to see my aunt occasionally, sometimes leaving his girlfriend outside waiting in the car. Her children were preteens and teenagers and they didn't have much to do with him when they grew up.

I mention this because the topic came up here. Though I was a kid when these things happened, I remember the talk and the pain and bitterness and anger my mother and her family members felt. I think it is important for husbands and wives to discuss these things. Easier said than done. But as a survivor, I feel so sad when I think of my aunt and I still make donations in her honor.

[Jackie07]

Somebody ought to write a book on this topic as a sequel to "Men are from Mars, Women are from Venus."

In the 'very' ancient Chinese history, the Emperor's wife and concubines were supposed to 'go to his grave' (literally, as the emperor's grave was huge) to accompany him when the Emperor was burried. Later, it evolved into a ritual of putting life-sized fugres into the grave. (Like the famous 'Tara Cotta' Soldiers unearthed in China.) Currently it's still a common practice in Southeast Asia for people to burn paper house, paper car, paper (underworld) money for their loved one to 'use' in 'the other world down below'.

Confucius had lamented even at the practice of using the tara cotta 'substitutes': "The ones that had started the practice of making those 'figures', are they not going to have children and grand children?" Some suspect if the so-called 'figures' were actually living persons being 'made' into statues ... Many have debated if Confucius was merely 'lamenting' or was saying "May they have no descendents..." (Ancient text can be interpreted in several different ways as usually it uses very few 'words' for expression.)

Seems the play 'Romeo and Juliet' exposes this kind of 'passion' between lovers. It was a 'tragedy' of tragedies in the name of love... Though it seemed to be a very beautiful concept... I do remember the feelings I have toward the story (there's a popular Chinese movie that was dubbed the 'Chinese Romeo and Juliet' when I was a young child...) Later I reflected on my feelings when I studied 'Romeo and Juliet' in college. I was confronted with it again when I was 30, 41, 43, 47... Each time I would make a little bit revision. But I have always encouraged my husband to go date other women... [during my semi-comatose, I had urged him to "date that nurse..." and had written in the notebook "donononon't be sad." I was so worried about him... (We had found out about my life-long brain tumor on the exact day of our 2nd Anniversay.)

'Children' are the main concern here. The best thing we can do is to prepare them as much as we can beforehand. And then trust them, trust our loved ones, and trust God.

[Disclaimer - As my Mother always says: "Before you have your own kids, you won't understand..." - exactly the same as the 'walking in the shoe...' expression.]

[Ruth]

This was hard to me to read especially with the coincidence of our beloved Marie post just this past couple weeks. I am mixed on my feelings as many of all of us seem to be. These past 6 1/2 years I have noticed all of these things happen after death of a spouse or loved one...fast dating times, marriages in months and then the other end of never marrying or even much of dating after many, many years after a beloved has passed away. It happens not only from cancer, it happens with auto accidents, heart attacks and many other forms of death. It is so hard if not impossible to put yourself in someone else's shoes. Walking their walk.
I have very small children and a darling husband they help fill up so much of my time. I get an incredible amount of love and support from them. My dad passed away very unexpectedly and even with all the love and support I had around me I couldn't make a rational decision for at least a year. I looked like Ruth, I talked like Ruth but Ruth wasn't inside for a while. My heart was totally broken. I truly believe that you can't make any kind of serious commitment or decision until healing takes place. For some people healing takes place in a year, some in years and some never. Part of who you are dies along with the person that you loved so desperately that died so in some essence you are not the same ~ or not at least who you really are. Time is needed. And by goodness kids need lots of time!

I want everyone to have love in their lives, feel happiness but I feel its not good for them to make any major decisions or commitments right after a major emotional place of time. I understand the joy of actually feeling good after feeling terrible for a long time. It can be like a drug - but it can also cover up grief or push grief down. Many people deal with tragety in different ways. It's hard to understand sometimes but hopefully in time they will heal and be in a good place. That good place hopefully will be with their whole family at their side.
I think I'm starting to ramble and need to go to bed! HA - its 12 and I have to get up with the munckins at 6!
I love all of you and I want everyone to be happy.

I know these are hurtful things to think about, feel, discuss, etc. I agree that it is not helpful to judge, since judgements are usually just a projection of our own fears and insecurities. More helpful is to recognize what YOUR feelings are about it in relation to your own relationships and situations, and deal with YOUR feelings about YOUR situations as they come up. It seems to really be about fear, fear of our or our memory or our children being "abandoned." These are definitely painful thoughts. But it may be more helpful to give up the illusion that we'll have any control over what happens to our family once we've crossed over. We can lay groundwork, but ultimately we likely will have no control, and that is our fear, that is what we need to face and work on.
Peace and Blessings to all
Liz

I totally agree that grief is something we have to navigate through. Finding love so very quickly may sound great and make one feel a sense of relief, but it is only a small bandage over a gushing wound of grief. Sooner or later, the bandage will fall off through the weight of harbored grief. I wish you all well but feel Sherry has a point and we all have our own baggage to carry.
Uma

[Lien]

I think that sometimes we do a lot of grieving while our loved one is sick, so we are ready sooner than others would be. Also, perhaps the new love postpones the grieving, but who is to say if that's a bad thing? We all do it our own way and something that fits me, could be totally wrong for someone else. Perhaps, if we postpone the grieving, it will engulf us when we least expect it to. But if our new relationship is good and our new lover can handle the grief, it could well be a blessing. Live and let live...

Jacqueline