Did the chicken or egg come first concerning the poor gene profile for her2...

This may be a rheotical question but did the bad 70 gene profile that is associated with her2+ hormonal negatives come first or is it the fact that you have her2? I almost want to assume it's not necessarily the fault of her2 if the her2+ that are hormonal positive did not get assign the bad profile at least by the research done by Fan et. al. that was posted a few days ago.

Alaska Angel, you did the 70 gene profiling. What do you think, being hormonal positive, concerning the chicken egg her2 question? THANKS.

Don't know that answer, but once you got the bad 70 gene profile, looks like it's permanent.

Cancer Res. 2005 Oct 15;65(20):9155-8.Click here to read Links
Molecular portraits and 70-gene prognosis signature are preserved throughout the metastatic process of breast cancer.

* Weigelt B,
* Hu Z,
* He X,
* Livasy C,
* Carey LA,
* Ewend MG,
* Glas AM,
* Perou CM,
* Van't Veer LJ.

Divisions of Experimental Therapy and Diagnostic Oncology, The Netherlands Cancer Institute, The Netherlands .

Microarray analysis has been shown to improve risk stratification of breast cancer. Breast tumors analyzed by hierarchical clustering of expression patterns of "intrinsic" genes have been reported to subdivide into at least four molecular subtypes that are associated with distinct patient outcomes. Using a supervised method, a 70-gene expression profile has been identified that predicts the later appearance or absence of clinical metastasis in young breast cancer patients. Here, we show that distant metastases display both the same molecular breast cancer subtype as well as the 70-gene prognosis signature as their primary tumors. Our results suggest that the capacity to metastasize is an inherent feature of most breast cancers. Furthermore, our data imply that poor prognosis breast carcinomas classified either by the intrinsic gene set or the 70 prognosis genes represent distinct disease entities that seem sustained throughout the metastatic process.

PMID: 16230372 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

[R.B.]

I have not looked at this in detail but it says

GENE EXPRESSION

GENE expression is the way you "wear" you genes.

Diet alters the way you wear your genes. This includes fat and mineral intake etc.

Omega threes and six intake can significantly alter gen expression. A trial in rats showed a doubling of expression of HER 2 in skeletal muscle in rats on a high omega six diet v a balanced omege three six intake. Some genes were changed by a factor of 10.

Expression is not the same as a defective gene or familial gene.

So from my reading you are not stuck with a particular profile, you can change it through diet and exercise. A mothers diet can bring about changes in genetic expression in off spring etc.

Diet has been recognised by a number of scientists as contributing to cancers, and does change genetic expression

RB.

[AlaskaAngel]

I just read Robin's post for this. I'd like to be intelligent enough to give you a quick answer, but I'm a little slow and am thinking over a few questions I have too, so I won't try to answer yet. Maybe Robin or Becky can.

But I do want to say that although I am HR+, I did not have the 70-gene profiling, for what that is worth.

AlaskaAngel

[karenann]

AA,

You mention that you do not have the 70-gene profiling... do you know this because you are er/pr+? Does the 70-gene profiling only occur when you are Her2+ and er/pr-?

Karen

[AlaskaAngel]

I hope I am not misreading your question to me Karen. As I understand it, the 70 gene profile is performed on fresh tissue only, so is only available to those who have fresh tumor tissue to work with. This type of analysis is recent and wasn't available at the time I was diagnosed and treated in 2002, so in comparison the analysis of my preserved tissue block was very limited. I could have it further analyzed by techniques other than the 70 gene profile but as yet I've chosen not to...


When the 70 gene profile is applied to different tumor samples it can have "better" or "worse" results, not just the bad set of results.

Does that help?

A.A.

[karenann]

Thanks AA.

Karen

[RobinP]

It appears that hormonal negative status rather than her2 status is the reason for a bad 70 gene profile in her2+ bc that is hormonal negative, since her2+ bc that is hormonal positive does not seem to have the poor 70 gene profile. Interestingly, triple negatives that are also hormonal negative appear to have a poor 70 gene signature too.



What causes hormonal negative breast cancers since they typically have a bad 70 gene profile? Loss of the estrogen receptor has been of much specuation in the research, without concensus amoung researchers. However, since younger women are much more prone to loss of the hormonal receptor, I would assume that it is primarily the premenopausal status and female hormones, perhaps coupled with bad genetics, that contribute largely to hormonal negative status somehow.

[R.B.]

GENE EXPRESSION does not equal "bad genes".

It is the way you wear your wardrobe of genes.

It is determimed in significant part by environmental lifestyle and dietary factors.

This is the result of a Pubmed search on "gene expression fat breast cancer".

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/q...arch&DB=pubmed

A wider search will produce thousands of results.

A book called Genetic Nutritoneering Jeffrey S Bland looks at some of the issues.

We have spent a very long time by design or evolution responding and interacting with out environment which includes food. We have recently made big dietary shifts. We are seeing that expressed for good or bad in the way we waer our genes.

Many in the sicentific community recognise that diet change play a big part in our increase in western diseases.

Testing often involves looking at change of gene expression caused by dietary agents.

You can change your gene expression by altering your diet.

You cannot change the gens you were born with, but can change the way you wear your wardrobe.

RB