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Old 02-16-2006, 12:22 PM   #1
sarah
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calcium report

Read today in the New York Times the following report, what does it mean to us?

February 16, 2006
Big Study Finds No Clear Benefit of Calcium Pills

By GINA KOLATA
A large, seven-year study of healthy women over 50 found no broad benefit from calcium and vitamin D supplements in preventing broken bones, despite widespread endorsement by doctors for the supplements.

The study, whose results are being reported today, also found no evidence that the supplements prevented colorectal cancer, and it found an increased risk of kidney stones.

The study's leaders said there were hints of benefits for some subgroups in the study. But the supplements' only positive effect in the overall study population — 36,282 normal, healthy women ages 50 to 79 — was a 1 percent increase in bone density at the hip.

The $18 million study was part of the Women's Health Initiative, a large federal project whose results have confounded some popular beliefs and raised questions about public health messages that had been addressed to the entire population.

Last week, the initiative reported findings that low fat diets do not protect against breast or colorectal cancer or heart disease. A few years ago, the initiative's study on hormone treatment after menopause showed it had more health risks than benefits.

In every case, the initiative was testing hypotheses that arose from studies that observed populations and correlated certain health practices with medical outcomes. But such observational studies, statisticians agree, can yield misleading information because a group that happens to follow certain health advice may differ in unknown ways from groups that do not.

Those drawbacks are alleviated in a clinical trial, like those of the Women's Health Initiative, which randomly assigned women to a preventive strategy, like hormones or diet or supplements, or not, and looked for definite results — a fractured bone, a heart attack.

In the new study, the participants were randomly assigned to take 1,000 milligrams of calcium and 400 international units of vitamin D a day, or to take placebos, and were followed for seven years. Researchers looked for effects on bone density, fractures and colorectal cancer. The lack of an effect on colorectal cancer over the seven years was so clear that it has aroused little debate. But the effect on bones is another story.

Osteoporosis specialists said the study, published today in the New England Journal of Medicine, was likely to put a dent in what has become a widespread medical practice of recommending that all women take calcium and vitamin D supplements starting at menopause if not sooner, as a sort of insurance policy against osteoporosis. But beyond that there is no agreement on what, if anything, healthy women should do.

The study's investigators emphasized encouraging hints and biological plausibility in the data. When they looked only at adherent women, or those who took 80 percent of their pills, the supplements reduced hip fractures by 29 percent. The annual rate of hip fractures in adherent women taking the supplements was 10 per 10,000 as compared with 14 per 10,000 in adherent women taking placebos.

In a separate subgroup analysis of all women in the study over 60, the investigators saw a 21 percent reduction in hip fractures in the group taking the supplements. The rate was 19 per 10,000 in women over 60 taking the supplements, compared with 24 per 10,000 in women over 60 taking placebos.

But such subgroup analyses are questioned by many statisticians, who point out that there always will be subgroups in a large study showing one effect or another, simply by chance.

Some subgroups, as happened in this study, will show a positive effect and others, as also happened in this study, will show a negative effect, but those effects often are nothing more than random fluctuations in the data. Over all, searching the data after the study is done in order to find subgroups that support a hypothesis can produce misleading results, statisticians say.

And, added David Freedman, a statistician at the University of California, Berkeley, who has written books on clinical trial design and analysis, women who take their pills as directed year in and year out are known to be different from ordinary women, so it is a mistake to generalize from them to the entire population.

Dr. Jacques Rossouw, a project officer for the study, explained the limitations. "These are secondary analyses and are exploratory to some extent," he said.

Nonetheless, said Dr. Elizabeth G. Nabel, the study's director, the subgroup data and the increase in hip bone density do indicate the value of adequate calcium and vitamin D. "Based on all the results, women — particularly those over 60 — should consider taking calcium and vitamin D for bone health," she said.

Others were not so sure.

Dr. Ethel Siris, president of the National Osteoporosis Foundation, said the new study made her question the advice given by many doctors that all women take calcium supplements regardless of what is in their diet. "We didn't think it hurt, which is why doctors routinely gave it," Dr. Siris said.

The new study, she said, shows it can hurt to take the supplements; among the women taking them there were an additional five cases of kidney stones per 10,000 women per year. So, Dr. Siris said, her suggestion is that doctors urge the supplements only upon women not getting enough calcium, 1,200 to 1,500 milligrams a day, from their diets.

"Enough is enough," Dr. Siris said. "Too much of a good thing isn't a good thing."

Dr. Clifford J. Rosen, director of the Maine Center for Osteoporosis Research and Education in Bangor, said he would now reserve the supplements for women over 70 — the age group with the greatest risk of hip fractures — who are not getting enough calcium and vitamin D.

"This is a public health intervention," Dr. Rosen said. "We've been recommending it for everyone but it probably doesn't work in the majority of people or the effect is small. And there is an increase in kidney stones. It is not a benign intervention."

Others went further, asking whether healthy women should be taking the supplements at all. Cynthia Pearson, executive director of the National Women's Health Network, an advocacy group, knew what her organization would say. "Because this isn't very effective doesn't mean you have to go look for something else," she said. "If you consider yourself reasonably similar to those women, which is what most of us aspire to be, don't worry. Life is good."

Susan Ellenberg, a statistician and former official at the Food and Drug Administration who is now at the University of Pennsylvania's Center for Clinical Epidemiology and Biostatistics, said: "It's disappointing. You would like there to be a simple inexpensive way to prevent hip fractures in older women."

But, Dr. Ellenberg said, "I think it's pretty clear that if there's any effect at all it's extremely modest. Even when you do those questionable subgroup analyses, there's just a barely significant effect, and that's in a very, very large group."

The study was begun to ask about a popular belief so fervently held that it has become almost a tenet of public health. Since adequate calcium and vitamin D are needed for healthy bones, and since women's bones normally start to thin after menopause, women should take the supplements to help protect themselves from the devastating bone fractures that can occur with osteoporosis.

And there may be another benefit — studies that observed people who happened to be taking calcium supplements had indicated that the supplements might reduce colorectal cancer risk.

The study was medical science's one chance to ask in such a rigorous way whether those beliefs about calcium and vitamin D were true. Such large studies, investigators said, tend not to be repeated.

Its investigators also realized that they would be applying the cold light of science to popular messages that have fueled a booming calcium supplement industry, with annual sales, reports Dr. Joel S. Finkelstein, an osteoporosis researcher at the Massachusetts General Hospital in Boston, of $993 million on 2004.

Calcium supplements, Dr. Finkelstein wrote in an editorial published today in the New England Journal of Medicine, are "the biggest seller of the multibillion-dollar dietary-supplement industry."

Those messages may have falsely reassured many women that the supplements are going to protect them, Dr. Finkelstein said.

"Women come to see me all the time saying, 'How can I possibly have osteoporosis? I exercise and I take calcium and vitamin D,' " he said. "The ads for calcium have given many women the impression that they are protected against osteoporosis. The message of the study is that calcium and vitamin D by themselves are not enough."

As a therapy to protect against osteoporosis, Dr. Finkelstein said, supplements are "pretty weak." Women who have the condition should consider taking one of the seven prescription drugs on the market that have been shown in rigorous clinical trials and approved by the Food and Drug Administration to prevent fractures, he advised. Six of the drugs inhibit bone breakdown and one spurs the growth of new bone.

But disappointing results are valuable, too, said Dr. Russell Harris, a specialist in internal and preventive medicine at the University of North Carolina School of Medicine.

"We advance in medical science," Dr. Harris said "not only by finding things that work but by finding things that don't work and by encouraging people to think about other things."

Now, some osteoporosis specialists are saying the study was flawed — it should have focused on older women, or it should have used higher doses of vitamin D, or it should have excluded women who already had plenty of calcium in their diets.

Dr. Siris said she understood the reaction. When she saw the results of the study, her first instinct was to pick it apart. But, she said, she was put off by the attacks on the Women's Health Initiative study that showed there were health risks from hormone treatments for menopause.

In the hormone study, she said, she thought the results were right and "now I find myself thinking there was something wrong with the design of this study because I don't like the results." She decided to resist the temptation to shoot the messenger.
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Old 02-16-2006, 08:16 PM   #2
aquinis2000
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different results

before i was dx'ed with b/c, i found out i had osteopenia, when having a spinal fusion. My rheumatologist , prescribed high doses of vitamin d with calcium supplement. my bone density increased within months of starting this regimen. He told me before starting, that in his experience this was highly effective, and from my own experience it has been for me. certainly after being taken off my premarin after dx, i think the supplements are a must.the other part of the study about preventing cancer seems a moot point with the boat we are all in!!!
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Old 02-17-2006, 04:06 AM   #3
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Here is a copy of a post of Gina P.'s response to calcium

HI, sorry, just spotted this one...

There are many reasons why I have concerns about extra SUPPLEMENTAL calcium for her-2 folks... I have no issues with normal calcium such as that from foods. If you want to build your bones though..it is magnesium that you need to be taking and not calcium...I do not know why calcium has received so much Popular press...but as I am fond of saying NO NEED TO TAKE my word for it...anyone concerned about the calcium issue..should google CALCIUM MAGNESIUM homeostasis...to understand what is really going on.

In a nutshell...the problem is absorption...no matter HOW MUCH SUPPLEMENTAL CALCIUM YOU INGEST...in the gut your body will only absorb an amount of calcium that is equal to the per cent of the magnesium in your system at the time. For instance...if you have 25mg of mag in your gut and ingest 1,000mg of supplemental calcium...you will absorb 25 mg of mag and 25mg of calcium (this is because the heart muscle needs the calcium to contract and the magnesium to relax--it is an evolutionary system that has been conserved since hearts evolved ...).

If you are young and healthy with superb bowel and kidney function, the extra 975 mg of calc won't really harm you and will be pooped or pee'ed out..to be blunt...smile...HOWEVER...as the typical American diet is notoriously poor in magnesium...if over time, you keep ingesting such a disproportionate amount of calcium to magnesium..real trouble will start. First, it will become harder and harder for your kidneys and bowels to rid the body of the excess supplemental calcium...causing lots of undue wear and tear on these vital organs...eventually, over time, the body will not be able to rid itself of ALL the excess calcium so guess what??? your body will start to store it in the the WORST of places..your bowels will become like cement..your joints will harden and calcify and then, your veins will start filling up with what is known in the trade as "calc plaque" which forms an ideal structure for bacterial biofilm to cling to which will lead to high blood pressure, heart attack and stroke and not make any "cancer situation" better than is for certain. Read the data for yourself. Why the doctors don't understand how the calcium mag homeostasis works anymore is beyond me....sigh... Remember, it is YOUR body and YOUR life...so take good care, one and all, Gina (Gpopp@Comcast.net)

Rhonda

PS...My father DIED because of "calc plaque"...went in for quad bypass surgery and the docs were unable to do even 1 bypass as the arteries in the heart were COMPLETELY calcified so the docs sewed him back up and told us that he would continue to have heart attacks and strokes until...he died the day before my 3rd chemo.

Last edited by RhondaH; 02-17-2006 at 04:13 AM..
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Old 02-18-2006, 08:23 PM   #4
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Any one NEED just ONE more reason to say no to

supplemental calcium??? How bout this statistic???...In the book Dare to be 100 it is revealed that surveys of substantial groups of people who live to be over 100 years old tend to intake LESS than the currently recommended RDA for guess what?? Calcium...fasinating..smile...and this is EVEN harder to believe, there were no vegetarians in this particular group of 100-somethings polled and none of the folks over 100 followed a low-fat diet--also of note, most were breakfast eaters...and get this...they tended to eat bacon, sausage and eggs ...hee hee hee...yes, it seems we could all learn a GREAT deal from longevity studies.... It is one thing to CLAIM something is beneficial...it is another entirely to see if it plays out in real humans....

Thanks for posting this one...one of my other dear friends had filled my e-mails with various versions of this study...she was elated to be sure as she had been a die-hard calcium ADDICT, there is no other way to describe her... until meeting me and discussing my various uh...theories..., though we argued for months over the issue, she eventually stopped the extra calcium years ago and since that time has not suffered heart palpitations, osteoporosis, colon cancer or any other cancer. She is now 65 and very healthy and well on her way to 100...her dad lived to 99, so she at least has a sound genetic blueprint too!

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Old 02-19-2006, 07:12 AM   #5
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WOW!!! Gina - I am in the middle of reading a pile of diet /health books and nobody has explained that - one mentioned magnesium but no more.

They do all seem to have a common thread as to questioning if dairy will up calcium levels in the bones. Apparently an arm of the Nurses Study showed no benifit against fractures for milk drinkers. Wider studes apparently may even suggest an inverse realationship between dairy consumption and bone strength ( but I suppose as always comparing our diet to eastern diets is difficult due to the very many differences - but it does suggest that whatever the answer is it may not be increased dairy consumption).

All suggest the best sources are fruit and veg particularly the cruciferous veg, beans and pulses etc.

A book called "Foods that Fight Pain" includes a list of calcuim and magnesium levels in veg and beans etc. Interesting the vast magority of foods listed beans and veg except corn bread and fortified orange juice contain magnesium.

Interestingly and unusually brown rice has 4 times as much magnesium that calcium, although not the highest levels. (Most items have realtaively lower level of calcium than magnesium)

On the calcium side figs, great noth beans, haricots, kale, oatmeal, soybeans, spinach, spring greens (very high calacium), swiss chard, tofu and white beans are at the top end. The beans in very general terms were a little lower in calcium but relatively higher in magnesium.

Phosphorous in colas was said to make calcium unavailable to the body.

Also listed as calcium depleters - soduim (salt) - caffine no more than two cups a day - sugar.

It was stated that vitamin D was necessary to cacium absorbtion, which may be depleted by corticosteroids.

Another interesting diversion.

Thank you

RB
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Old 02-19-2006, 07:35 AM   #6
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I have just checked on magnesium levels in milk - it seemed the logical question and reports suggest it does not.

Here is an extensive and interesting link flagging up other potential complications with diary products.

On the plus side CLA has been reported as having cancer benifits (maximum benifit at 1% diet,

Whey protein figures as a goody in lots of reports.

There is also the question of contribution to internal flora.

As wide range a range of "good" foods as possible and moderation seems to be a general message that may come out of all of this.

RB


This link is a study topic on its own!


http://www.digitalnaturopath.com/treat/T270729.html
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Old 02-19-2006, 07:43 AM   #7
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And here on the same lines is an interesting article.

RB




http://www.healthandnutrition.co.uk/...s/osteopor.htm

Do You Really Need

MILK FOR HEALTHY BONES?



There are some worrying anomalies that are becoming obvious relating to the consumption of dairy foods and the incidence of osteoporosis. In the UK we consume the greatest amount of dairy products in Europe, and yet we also have the worst incidence of osteoporosis. Additionally, if you look at cultures where dairy products are not widely consumed and where they actually have a lower calcium intake than we do, in particular the Far-East, the incidence of this bone disease are particularly low. Something does not add up!

We are suffering an epidemic of bone fractures in the UK amongst post-menopausal women, and the rate of incidence has been increasing steadily this century. The main cause of bone fractures is osteoporosis, or brittle bone disease.

THE SILENT THIEF

Osteoporosis is a gradual loss of minerals from the matrix of the bones. Eventually the matrix begins to look like a sponge, is weakened, and then crumbles. This is a painful, and often life threatening problem. It has been called the silent thief, because there are no outward visible early warning signs of de-mineralisation. The only way to be forewarned of this problem is to have occasional bone scans. One in three women will suffer from osteoporosis and one in eight men will also succumb.

It is now widely observed that osteoporosis is starting in younger women in their 20s and 30s, and it has also been noted in teenagers - rather than just in post-menopausal women. A study of women’s bones in Spitalfields, in the east-end of London, dating from the early-18th to mid-19th centuries, found that bone density was significantly better than that of women today, both pre- and post-menopausally, despite our supposedly better diet nowadays.

RISK FACTORS

There are many recognised contributory factors to osteoporosis. These include imbalance of hormones (sex and thyroid hormones), lack of weight bearing exercise, smoking, and heavy alcohol and caffeine consumption.

Detailed advice on how to reduce the risk of osteoporosis with dietary measures is rarely offered, despite the weight of evidence on how profoundly diet can influence the development, and the halting of this disease. The usual dietary advice dished out is to make sure that you get sufficient calcium, together with vitamin D to help the absorption of the calcium. The recommended daily allowance (RDA) for women is 500 mg a day of calcium (or 1200 mg if they are teenagers, pregnant or lactating), and they are usually told that the best way to achieve this is to drink a pint of milk a day, or to get an equivalent amount from other dairy products such as cheese and yoghurt. But is this advice appropriate, and does it work?

This advice can alarm people who have an allergy to milk proteins or who are lactose intolerant. About 10% of adults have these problems, and in some communities, such as Asians, lactose intolerance can soar to around 70%. Many more people feel that dairy products do not ‘agree with them’ and experience partial or complete relief from nasal mucus, migraines, hay fever, asthma or eczema if they avoid dairy products. Where does the advice to drink milk, to avoid osteoporosis, leave them?

DAIRY DOUBTS

Many nutritionists have been arguing for a long time that it is simplistic to consider calcium to be the main dietary answer to solving this problem. Bone building is a complex mechanism involving many elements. The minerals calcium, magnesium and phosphorous are required. Zinc is necessary for the growth process, vitamin C is used to manufacture the matrix and vitamin D and boron are needed to help absorb and use calcium.

Of key importance in the body’s ability to use calcium is that it is obtained from a source that is also a good source of magnesium. The balance between these two minerals is essential - without magnesium the body cannot maximise the use of calcium. And of course while dairy products are very dense sources of calcium, they have almost no magnesium. And anyway how do cows grow such large, strong bones after weaning? They eat grass. And here there is a clue... any green leafy vegetable will have the perfect balance of calcium and magnesium, since magnesium is the basis of the ‘green factor’ in plants, chlorophyll. Nuts and seeds also provide this perfect balance of minerals. The human body can use calcium derived from these sources much more efficiently than from milk and cheese. In fact the saturated fats in whole milk and cheese actually slows down the absorption of calcium into the body. Calcium can be obtained from a variety of sources, as listed in the chart (below??).

But the potential problem with dairy products in relation to bone health is possibly even greater. A World Health Organisation survey has shown that high protein diets, with low vegetable intake, contribute to osteoporosis. High protein diets increase the loss of calcium in the urine. The most extreme example of this is the Eskimos: they are lucky enough to have one of the lowest incidence of heart disease risk due to the high oily fish content of their diet, however they also have the world’s worst osteoporosis problems. Traditionally they subsist on large quantities of fish and seal meat, but have almost no fresh vegetables or fruit.

Excess protein results in an ‘acid’ residue in body tissues. Since the body is principally an alkaline medium, acid residues in cells are positively dangerous. In particular our blood must be kept slightly alkaline, if not this can lead to acidosis, a life threatening condition. The body has a number of ‘buffering’ systems that alkalises any acid residue and these buffering systems all use calcium as a key component of their activity. The principal source of calcium for this activity is calcium that is lodged in the bones. So dairy products, which are protein dense foods, may also contribute to calcium loss in addition to not providing highly usable calcium in the first place.

SO WHAT IS THE ANSWER?

So what can be done, from a dietary point of view, to reduce the risk of this disease? Certainly bone is living tissue which replaces itself over the period of about a year, so the potential for bone regeneration is good in pre-menopausal women. It may well be wise to avoid depending too heavily on dairy products especially if other protein dense foods, such as meat, are eaten regularly. A little cheese once in a while will not harm, it is excess that is in question. The calcium in yoghurt is more bio-available than from other dairy sources. The reason for this is that it is a fermented product and the B-vitamins that the bacteria manufacture help the uptake of calcium. A varied diet that includes a wide selection of green leafy vegetables, nuts and seeds has been shown to be very protective providing a wide range of nutrients that are necessary for bone health. Other factors to limit are high salt intake and high phosphorous intake (from soft drinks and junk foods) both of which contribute to bone loss.

All this advice is appropriate for growing children and at other times of fast bone growth, such as pregnancy. Indeed at these times the body ingeniously increases its ability to absorb calcium from foods. Under normal circumstances we absorb around 20-30% of calcium from our diets, but children and pregnant women will absorb about 75% of dietary calcium. This means that the mechanism is in place to make the best use of our diet... if only we can give our bodies the best diet to make use of.

© Suzannah Olivier 2000

For more information read Balancing Hormones Naturally. Click here for more information.
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Old 02-19-2006, 04:33 PM   #8
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Mayo Clinic

Lack of Vitamin D is associated with breast cancer, Lack of vit D also does not allow the body to absorb calcium. Many post menopausal women experience osteoporosis due to a lack of estrogen. And certainly we gain the most Vitamin D from natural sunlight. But to someone who is struggling with chemo sickness going out side to sunbath just doesn't happen., being postmenopausal and not eating the best diet also contribute to osteoporosis. Breaking bones from minor incidents, spinal and back fractures are serious problems. Anyone on this board who has had trouble with this has taken vitamin d and calcium and has probably shown great improvement. Hers what Mayo says:

www.mayoclinic.com/health/ osteoporosis/DS00128/DSECTION=9 - 26k - Cached - Similar pages
http://www.mayoclinic.com/health/ost...128/DSECTION=9
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Old 02-19-2006, 10:15 PM   #9
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WOW RB...you are on a roll...smile...

Just remember as with the oils ... balance is key...I do not exclude dairy from my diet, I just don't eat or drink a lot of it, though I often have about 6 ounces of 1% milk with breakfast or on cereal. Of course we need calcium..., but the catch is that it is already found in almost anything we eat...fruits and veggies in particular. The problem with the more western diet is that by processing foods and making certain poor food choices (such as white rice instead of brown; processed grains instead of whole, etc), we are in general, becoming more and more magnesium deficient and with the media hyping calcium more calcium --the imbalance in the calcium to magnesium ratio is only made all the more worse instead of better, leading to exactly the increase in heart-related illnesses that we are witnessing all the time: High blood pressure (the calc plaque builds up inside the arteries--making the passages more narrow causing the blood pressure to rise); heart attack (Rhonda's real life story should be a warning to us all) and stroke (one of my dearest elderly friends had one TIA (transient ischemic attack or mini -stroke)after another following being advised by her physician to take up to 2,000mg of Calcium per day years ago for supposed osteoporosis after falling one day and breaking her wrist in her 70's...this brought on early and severe non-Alzheimers' dementia...it was horribly sad as in her prime she had been a teacher and an author of children's books.)

If I were a leader of this country, one of the first issues I would address is cleanliness of water supply and for reasons similarly to why we added vitamin A & D to milk, I swear, I would put the magnesium and other trace minerals...back in the drinking water...after GETTING RID of all the exotic bacteria (non-coliform) first of course...smile...for those of you who follow my bacterial-root of her-2 theories...you will get this.

Most folks are not even aware that by law, all the U.S. and State governments are required to remove from the public water supply are the e. coli and other anaerobic (non-oxygen breathing) coliform bacteria...all exotic bacteria...be it Moraxella osloensis, Shigella, H. pylori, and even Legionella are allowed to happily multiply and cause their nasties without any government impediment whatsoever. Ironically, this problem is due to another severe imbalance in our culture, one in which most public water authorities are using only ozone to "sanitize" the water supply. Ozone which is heavy oxygen or 03 is killing off all the anaerobic coliform all right and that is a good thing, but by taking out all the natural anaerobic predators of these often aerobic or air -breathing exotic bacteria mentioned above, these air-breathers are being allowed to increase and multiply to the point of becoming severe, though stealth, human pathogens, which would have never happened, had their population size been contained by their natural anaerobic counterparts rather than expanded by the lack there of and actually fueled by the extra oxygen provided so generously by the ozone (O3).

When these often gram -negative, air-breathing exotic bacteria are allowed to overgrow in the water supply, life becomes especially dangerous to some folks who, for whatever reasons, too many antacids or prilesec, have shut off the acid in their stomachs (the immunity's first line of defense against them), so they have no first defense to kill these new breeds of super bac. Others--even with their stomach acid intact may still get sick for reasons of heredity, illness, or gamma globulin or rhogam or other immuno- damaging situations that cause some folks to already have a pre-existing mal-funtion in their immune systems for dealing with aerobic versus anaerobic bacteria. Even though they will run no fevers nor show any outward signs, at first, of bacterial related illness, inside, these aerobic exotic bacteria will set up house-keeping inside their very cells and eventually usurp the cell's own protein making factories to do their own dirty work. The body will know something is off and call for its immune fighting cells to put out the fire. These cells will come to the "rescue" carrying buckets of basically what is the equivalent of hydrogen peroxide (oxygen) which would kill any normal anaerobic bacteria inside a similar cell, but have, like the calcium, the complete OPPOSITE effect on air-breathing bacteria. These exotic bacteria can now use the natural hydrogen peroxide as oxygenated fuel and a complex proteomics cascade will follow and escalate on the cellular microscopic level until one day...these changes will start to surface on the macro level and eventually become palpable. Some folks will even begin to display the exact signs and symptoms of guess what?? her-2 mediated disease. But that is a soap box that I will not HOP on tonight...smile.

Back to the topic of this thread, although most of you know that, in general, I do not favor a strictly vegan or vegetarian diet either, one benefit of those types of diets (as well as the macro-biotic) is USUALLY that they do a better job of balancing the calcium to magnesium ratio because of their essential inclusion of more beans and whole grains to meet non-animal protein level requirements. Still as noted above, even though these folks may succomb less to heart-related illnesses, they are still not making it past the age of 100, so in the final analysis, I think the Greeks said it best: "IN ALL THINGS MODERATION"...and "LET THY FOOD BE THY MEDICINE" to which I might add, 'Let thy water be free of exotic bac, especially those nasty gram-negative air-breathing ones'...smile....

GREAT Posts RB...keep that data pumping,
Gina
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Old 02-20-2006, 07:38 AM   #10
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and don't foget exercise - that's a real key and a difference with other cultures. we sit at desks and computers all day long generally speaking.
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Old 05-22-2006, 08:14 AM   #11
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*Jean (and others) Gina's response to Calcium*

Here is the post I was referring to.

Rhonda
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Dx 2/1/05, Stage 1, 0 nodes, Grade 3, ER/PR-, HER2+ (3.16 Fish)
2/7/05, Partial Mastectomy
5/18/05 Finished 6 rounds of dose dense TEC (Taxotere, Epirubicin and Cytoxan)
8/1/05 Finished 33 rads
8/18/05 Started Herceptin, every 3 weeks for a year (last one 8/10/06)

2/1/13...8 year Cancerversary and I am "perfect" (at least where cancer is concerned;)


" And in the end, it's not the years in your life that count. It's the life in your years."- Abraham Lincoln
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Old 05-22-2006, 07:17 PM   #12
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Mega dittos Rhonda and Gina, I really think balance is the key with minerals and vitamins. Magnesium seems to counter balance the constipating affects of calcium. By the way, I agree with you Gina about keeping natural minerals in water. Not only does the body need those vital minerals but when treated water that has these nutrient removed is ingested; it pulls the minerals from the body as this treated water has a lower osmotic gradient. I have our well water tested annually and am pleased to see the many natural minerals in it, without the pollutant of chlorine, itself a carcinogen.
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Old 05-23-2006, 08:49 AM   #13
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The results of the study make perfect sense to me. They aren't going to see good results unless they balance intake with magnesium and weightbearing exercise. So for me it isn't a question about reducing the recommendation on taking 1200 to 1500 mg of calcium every day, it is only a question of making sure I get calcium, magnesium, vitamin D and weightbearing exercise. I prefer to go to great lengths to get natural sunshine for the vitamin as much as possible because I think there might be some things we haven't discovered about natural sunshine that are good. I do know that recent studies show vitamin D is thought to be especially beneficial.

Unfortunately the outcome of the study is likely to be to encourage women to reduce their calcium intake instead. In that sense the study itself is detrimental, not helpful.

AlaskaAngel
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