survivor dating a man who lost a fiancee to BC
 

I am having huge issues with survivor's guilt.. i recently began dating a man who lost his finacee to BC 5 years ago.. in 2005 i was dx with DCIS and IDC (Her2 +)..

after surviving my treatment, i began running.. i met DJ when i entered the world of ultrarunning.. he is one of the best in the world and i am now up and coming in the sport.. i am proud of how far i have come in the last few years... i am able to run 100 miles in under 20 hours and hope to do very well in 2010..

about 5 years ago DJ lost a fiancee to BC and in our small ultrarunning world, fans and reporters and such are so interested in his story about his tragic loss that over and over i am finding myself reading about how his deceased fiancee inspired his greatness today... at first it to found his story compelling and inspiring, but now i am starting to have a very hard time coping with this...

i fear recurrence daily..i had a 2 cm benign tumor removed a few months ago.. and i fear that everytime something abt BC arises he is reminded of the loss of his love which i fear will always overshadow me. I feel so horrible that i want him to be greatful that i survived when i know that instead he is pained by his loss..

I am not sure how to handle this.. for years being a survivor has been something i have been proud of.. i have worked hard in my sport to be a role model and inspiration to others who may be afraid that the treatment for cancer will render them weak..i want to show people that if you fight the fatigue you can accomplish great things.. i met DJ, and together we ran out butts off... and people started to recognize (both of us. mostly him but also me..) and now after reading another article about his tragic loss of his love, i feel horribly guilty for living in fear of recurrence, i feel like his loss deminishes my right to fear recurrence and i am now having trouble coping with the unique struggles of survivorship...

any thoughts, advice, help.. thank you.

sm

Re: survivor dating a man who lost a fiancee to BC
 

In any relationship there are three things - you, the other person and the "couple" that you are.

You need to work on and understand all three components. First is you - a fine athlete (I am a non competitive runner so I understand that part) - very fine you are if I might say so myself (100 miles doing less than 8.5 minute miles - all I can say is WOW!!). And that you are surviving BC too. Do not diminish these things in any way.

Second is the significant other - you are wonderful, he needs to move on. Can he or has he begun to define himself (and perhaps his shortcomings personally or professionally) on his past loss. A loss such as what he experienced is profound, but sometimes early on one learns that it can be used as an excuse - (ie: I couldn't get the report done on time because....) and another could be that he attributes his gains "in her honor" versus just being egocentric and saying "I worked my butt off to be the best and win this race". He has to make it humble and the former fiancee's BC death is the way to do that rather than just being able to say "I am the best". Sometimes that is a hard thing for people to say about themselves.

Lastly you have the "couple" part which is how you are together. Are you good together? Is the fact that you think he may love you more if you recurred a factor? Do you think he may put you on the pedestal he has put his former love? Is he afraid to lose you too? Or is your relationship ok and it is just his outsider behavior? Have you discussed this with him at all?

The only advice I can truly offer is do not diminish yourself and your running accomplishments and survivor status. To run 8.5 min miles for 100 miles shows NO fear and you haven't recurred in over 5 yrs so your chance of doing so is also low. Go, go, go. The rest is up to you and him. I will go the "Dear Abby" route and recommend joint and individual therapy for all "three" of you.

Re: survivor dating a man who lost a fiancee to BC
 

hi sm-

i second becky with regard to getting therapy, at least for yourself right now. you said you've only recently started dating this guy, so i don't know if it's too early to suggest therapy involving him too. if i was in your shoes, i'd definitely want to work on the feelings with a therapist first before bringing him into the picture. it is definitely an unusual situation and i wouldn't know how to handle it either. i can see how you would have a hard time handling it the more you get involved with him. no woman would constantly want to feel over-shadowed by a lost love, and you have the added complication of having had breast cancer once yourself. do you really feel like he has her on such a pedestal when you are alone together, or is it something that the press is tending to do more than him? the press certainly loves to seize on something and put blinders on, even to the point of mis-quoting and exaggerating, as we all know.

it is really complicated and i can understand your insecurity with regard to the fiance. but not at all with regard to your accomplishments, because they are amazing! i can no longer run (knee problems), and even when i could the best i could manage was a very slow 26.2. don't let anything diminish your achievements. you ARE an inspiration to me already, and i don't even know who you are. i just finished chemo last thursday and have been attacking the gym again, even when i am weary. next time i go i am going to stay on the cross-trainer an extra five minutes and tell myself another breast cancer survivor can do a hundred miles.... surely i can do a *couple*.

i hope you find a professional to talk to about this. i would be lost without my therapist. best, valerie

Re: survivor dating a man who lost a fiancee to BC
 

Have the two of you talked about it together? If not, I vote for going to therapy to talk it out. Either by yourself, by himself, or/and together. It may also help to find out if there's a true , potentially lasting relationship between the two of you.

I'm sorry to say this bluntly since I'm probably not supposed to impose my own situation/feelings on others. But hubby of 22 years has just told me (and many times before) that he's got very tired of this chronic illness/cancer situation - especially the last 5 years.

I'm not backing off in my attitute because he has not provided /contributed for over 8 years since he had the (heart) stents procedure done. He felt like he's been sacrificing for me, his now deceased Mother, and his Father who lives in the country all these years. He felt like nobody appreciates what he'd done for us. The truth is, none of the things he's been doing for us can not be done by a hired hand. His father asked him not to work when my Mother-in-law went to the nursing home 7 years ago . My Mother-in-law has been gone a year now, and he still has not even 'tried'to find a job... Yah, of course I know that he's still depressed...

And I suspect that the only reason why he has stayed this long is because I have been the bread winner the past 10 years. Now my unemployment is going to run out (again)... We'll see what happens when all of our stocks and mutual funds are sold and gone...

Just to show you how problems can arise even between a long-married couple.

Having had 4 major medical procedures in the past 20 years, I do not feel like any survivors need to have any guilt about staying alive. After all, it is our God-giving right/human nature/animal instinct to want to live as long as we can. As cancer patients, our survival is to be celebrated, cherished, and encouraged. If the person you are with is giving you any hint of guilt, I say just let go. But if he's simply not ready to move on, it will be up to you to decide whether or not it's worth waiting.

Re: survivor dating a man who lost a fiancee to BC
 

Without knowing how involved your relationship is
or at what stage your relationship is (there are so many stages to in relationships). Are you sure that the guilt you are feeling is guilt? Or could it be you are feeling you are competing with his fiancée?

Maybe his running out of memory for her is bothering you in some way. You are and should be very happy to be alive each day not guilty. Guilt is a waste of time,
especially after surviving breast cancer. If nothing else, a bout with breast cancer teaches us to enjoy each moment.

Let's face it, there will always be something to remind him of his past love...it doesn't just have to be cancer.
There are dozens of memories that he carries.

You mention that you want him to be happy that you survived, "but he is pained by his loss"....

He began running because of his fiancé passing from cancer and his running is a statement for a cure for all women and men who are dx. with this ugly disease. Like him you are running to make a statement, you want to do something about this terrible disease.

It is sad if you are fighting a ghost of a woman and you feel guilty....After surviving breast cancer each day is gift....to be able to say I have survived breast cancer, and run 100 miles....it doesn't get any better!!!

Be happy you have earned it....maybe it isn't you at all,
maybe DJ just doesn't demonstrate to you how important you are. Try speaking with him about these feelings. Does he support you and give you the recognition, attention and love of the woman in his life today? Without knowing where both of you are in your relationship it is impossible to say. You do mention you just starting dating, maybe you have more feelings and he is not returning them or maybe he is just not filling your needs?

These are the important questions. Is it really guilt you are feeling or just that he is not able to meet your needs?

You both need to have a serious discussion. After five years NED....and all you have accomplished....you are wearing golden sneakers....enjoy life. There is no room for guilt.

Best Wishes,
Jean

Re: survivor dating a man who lost a fiancee to BC
 

Update:

Thank you all for your support. I realize that in a place where people come here for support in the fight for their lives, relationship troubles sound like a blessing.

I shared my running accomplishments b/c running has helped me cope with alot of the fears that comes with survival. Meeting someone that shared my love for running and who i felt understood my breast cancer fears seems very appealing.

For all who mentioned therapy, I was headed that way if the relationship lasted (as a therapist myself, i recognize the effectiveness of having an unbiased counselor walk me through emotional minefields. The best therapists need the eyes and ears of another therapist to help them). But the relationship didn't last.

It turns out that DJ has more issues regarding his own insecurity that in realized. He had such low self esteem that his entire identity was as "the guy who lost his fiancee to BC" .. he told his story over and over for year, elicited empathy for people repeated. There was no room for me in his love story, b/c no one feels sorry for a guy who is happy and in love... but he suer got a lot of attention from every for losing his fiancee 5 years ago.

I am sorry to say that it took only a few short months for me to i "catch him" (b/c he gave me his email password to show me i could trust him ??) trying to hit on/ meet/ arrange dates with several (12) women over the internet. In a disgusting turn of event, it seems he uses his "fiancee" story to elicit sympathy and trigger the maternal instinct of the women he is trying to hit on. His story is very effective as it is based in truth. As the "alpha girl" of this bakers dozen of female attention, i was the one who got the title of girlfriend, the wedding proposal, and the job of taking care of him in real life, and accordingly I was extremely repulsed by what i found. In one instance, he even used my cancer history to elicit the maternal instinct for an interest of his, after she accidently found out he and i were a couple.

In defense of his deceased fiancee, I spent a good hour and half demanding that he have some respect for her life and her fight, pointing out that she is not a tool to be used to elicit sympathy from women, that his story of loss should be saved for the right girl, after he gets to know her, and not to be used a story to get a girl..

I wanted to report the irony of my initial concern, "how do i handle competing with his memory of his past love".. when by the end i was the one defending her honor and demanding that he show her the respect she deserves. I demanded that he seek help for his insecurity and a help processing his loss so that he can find a way to more on with his life.

So my sense of something about the pedestal he put his fiance on being too much ,which initially brought me here, was correct. It was too much. He continually idolized her and the reason that he could never mention me to reporters was that it would blow his chance to use he "lost love" story to get girls at races..

disgusting, huh?

I have honestly never told off another human being with so much voracity in my lifetime and by the time i was done, i had brought him to tears. I believe that no non-survivor, would ever have had the guts to stand up to him the way I did. I felt that I defended his fiancee's life and honored her struggle in a way she truly deserved and I have seen since that he dosen't through his story around anymore like he used to..

So there it is.. the update.

Thank you for your eyes and ears here and permitting me to vent about something not a serious as the fight you all are facing and I one found myself in as well.

Take care

Re: survivor dating a man who lost a fiancee to BC
 

Wow, how could anyone do such a thing! I am amazed at some human beings. Good for you for giving him a piece of your mind. He should definitely have some respect for his deceased wife. Thankfully you found out the "real him" before you got even deeper with him. Good luck and there are good people (men) out there!

Re: survivor dating a man who lost a fiancee to BC
 

Dear sm -
Thanks for letting us know how your relationship went with this guy.
That story just about takes the cake for using cancer as a manipulation and excuse for undeserved sympathy.

Not knowing the guy personally, but I am not really sure that insecurity is his main problem. Sounds to me more like he wants a way to have a hold over women and to control them. He failed in controlling his wife's cancer and "lost" her.

Now he uses her plaintive story to hook in his victims. That is a rather harsh word, but if he is trolling the internet while supposedly enmeshed in a serious relationship, he needs all he can get to restore his sense of control.

I am not a therapist, but this is my read.
This story is an eye opener for all of us, so don't be afraid to tell it as he is not the first and won't be the last to try such descipable tactics.

Keep enjoying your running and NED status for ever!

Re: survivor dating a man who lost a fiancee to BC
 

people never cease to amaze me.

when i was in my 20's i met an older guy at a bar. he was a fireman. he told me he was a vietnam vet (like his best friend was) and that he had stomach cancer from agent orange so that's why he'd gone on disability. well, his V-vet best friend was bullshit when i innocently mentioned it to him. the only truth he told was that he was a fireman, the vet status and stomach cancer were just stories. and here i'd even spent time with him one night as he clutched his stomach in pain. his disability was a back issue that even the fire dept thought was faked.

he's lucky i didn't disable him in a place he'd regret forever.

as someone who lost a husband to cancer i find what your thankfully EX boyfriend was doing deplorable. unfortunately, i've been around the net a lot and i've seen similar stories, the latest was a guy faking a brain tumor to get his ex-girlfriend back.

i'm glad you caught on to him. obviously your spidey-sense about that guy was more accurate than you ever imagined.

valerie