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-   -   Chemo-induced Osteoporosis: Seeking Healthy ways of Rebuilding Healthy Bones (http://her2support.org/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=66945)

JessicaV 03-11-2018 07:38 PM

Chemo-induced Osteoporosis: Seeking Healthy ways of Rebuilding Healthy Bones
In about May of last year, I fractured 3 ribs by levering the hedge clippers hard against my chest to cut through an inch-thick rose branch. I had a bone scan then that showed up the 3 fractures, two where I levered against my chest under my arm, and one on 6th rib closer to the sternum. Plus severe osteoarthritis in an right elbow I broke during chemo in 2014 and in my spine and in my left shoulder. I would have liked a full report but the GP only asked about my ribs.

Now I just had a BMD DEXA scan and assessment. It shows that I have T-scores of 3.3 for my lumbar spine (osteoarthritis) 1.5 for my femur and total hip, and 1.1 for my forearm(all in the mild osteopenia level).

I have been daily taking two or three of my 1000 VitD3 tabs plus 1500 glucosamine (to protect against/treat the osteoarthritis) plus 1000 vit E plus a general vitamin supplement, swimming and walking once or twice a week, etc for the osteoarthritis which I am sure was miminal before treatment but hit hard during/after chemo of docetaxol, carboplatin and herceptin. Trying to eat healthy, v little alcohol, one coffee a day, no carbonated drinks, minimal starch and sugar, eating cheese eggs' fish and chicken plus lots of vegs and fruit much of it from my own garden. Ongoing heartburn an hour or two after eating which is reduced when i go without wheat products or sugary things, and with smaller meals etc.

My cancer diagnosis was non-hormonal tumor, only HER2+ so I am not on Aromase Inhibitors or tamaxofen or similar.

Reading further now, I discover that my own chemo regime significantly affects bone density in many women. Esp the Lumbar spine. So what I have is drug-induced osteoporosis/osteopenia, which I believe must be different to the normal osteoporosis of aging. I am looking for ways to reverse it and strengthen my bones naturally through diet and exercise because I am not impressed by what I have read about the medical treatments for osteoporosis i.e. that they make heartburn and reflux worse, and add to bone density by reducing breakdown of bones, not by increasing new bone growth, and may in fact not make any difference to bone strength even if BMD is improved. Like using strontium compounds which are denser than calcium so increase BMD without really helping at all.
I have a rebounder and plan to use that for 10min blocks several times a day. And to do more walking. I am trying to find out about forms of calcium that can be absorbed well, and how exactly to balance calcium, magnesium, VitD3 and all the other nutrients needed to rebuild healthy bones.
I would love to know other people's experience of things that help, and thoughts and ideas and research.
best wishes
Jessica Vivien

Laurel 03-12-2018 01:55 PM

Re: Chemo-induced Osteoporosis: Seeking Healthy ways of Rebuilding Healthy Bones

Have you read anything about Strontium? It, coupled with Vit D in high doses, may improve your density. Please try Googling Strontium for bone health and see what you think. Also, I have read that easy jumping helps improve bone density in older women. That is not to suggest you go hopping with abandon, but simple jumping on a forgiving surface is supposed to help build bone. Please let us know what you learn.

JessicaV 03-19-2018 05:34 PM

Re: Chemo-induced Osteoporosis: Seeking Healthy ways of Rebuilding Healthy Bones
Hi Laurel, thanks for your suggestion. But the problem with strontium is that it is a denser i.e. heavier chemical than calcium, and it will take the place of calcium in the bones.As a result it makes bones denser but not actually healthier or stronger at all.
Bone density is not really what we are looking for: bone health and strength is the important thing. Smaller/shorter people have smaller bones so are going to start with less density of bone and are thus more prone to being diagnosed with low bone density.
I am reading that the methods for measuring bone density, which here in Australia involves using DEXA, is not very accurate and certainly is no measure of bone quality. There are new MRI processes that are much better, but that is not what doctors currently use.
I am trying to find out what the mechanism is that causes bone loss when we have chemo: could be the docetaxel , and/or the carboplatin, and/or the methasone, and/or the neulasta. It could be that it destroys any remaining oestrogen production but I suspect it is more that it either directly damages the bone forming/breaking-down process or it draws a lot of calcium and/or other chemicals out of the bone and then the relatively inactivity of being sick means the body is not getting the normal exercise that helps rebuild bone. I have read that kids with Cerebral Palsy lose bone density from inactivity and rebuild it with the right diet and exercise.

R.B. 04-06-2018 03:48 PM

Re: Chemo-induced Osteoporosis: Seeking Healthy ways of Rebuilding Healthy Bones
HI JessicaV

Interesting topic.

As general thoughts I would suggest you read the vitamin D thread and watch the Holick lecture. Many are low in vitamin D and repletion may require a blood test and intakes commensurate with status.

VitK2 and A are coworkers with vit D.

If you search Omega 3 and osteoporosis you will find papers on the subject. eg https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3899785/

This may contain things of interest https://vitamindwiki.com/Osteoporosis

Weston Price was very conscious of the need for adequate nutrients for bone and teeth health - bone broth is highly regarded. https://www.westonaprice.org/ Modern foods (including grains and veg due to changing growing practices, loss from soils, breeding etc) and particularly those that are highly processed are often 'low' in minerals for a number of reasons

Sorry I cannot be more specific in terms of mechanisms - I have not read anything on bone loss in chemo

Christine MH-UK 04-22-2018 09:47 AM

Re: Chemo-induced Osteoporosis: Seeking Healthy ways of Rebuilding Healthy Bones
There was a promising trial of tomato paste and post-menopausal Italian women a while back. Of course, I can't find it now. The one-off bone loss from chemopause is substantially higher than from naturally-occurring menopause.

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