OK my opinion...Like it or not
 

After being diagnosed as Stage IV I began thinking alot about my death and how it would effect my family. My daughter is 11. My best friend died when she was 40, leaving 2 young boys behind, within months her husband was dating again while her boys were being shipped off to friends house. He only seemed to care about this "angel" god had sent him. It just seems that there has been a trend of where the spouces are already dating someone before the body of their loved one has gotten cold. I just don't understand this. Especially in the case where children are involved. What are you teaching your child when you bring home another woman or man that soon, it would seem to me to teach them that "mom or dad was pretty replaceable." I have made it clear to my husband that I expect him to do the right thing and put in a good amount of time in making sure my children get the help they needed and him spending time with them, they are going to need it. He will just have to put his primal needs on hold for a while, that's what makes him a responsible adult. I have no problem down the road if he finds a nice woman to spend the rest of his life with and who will love our children, then he will have my blessing from heaven. But it's not going to happen within months of my death. I'll be throwing hot grits at him from wherever I end up...lol. I know I've also heard about how it's just as hard or even harder on the caregivers but I don't quite believe this either. Not many caregivers would really want to trade place with the dying cancer patient. They may get shell shocked from the afterblasts but it's the patients going through the full blown war. Why do we do this, to keep our loves and our families together and to live..I think it would break a lot of their hearts to know that with all their fighting to stay in here, they could be replaced in a couple of months. I just think it's the respectable thing to do and the only thing to do when you have young children involved. My husband just lost his young secretary to brain cancer, within weeks of her burial, her husband was dating her nurse. At the funeral, I told my husbnd "i bet he's taking phone numbers"...I wasn't wrong. I know that life is for the living but there has to be a right respectable way to deal with it. I am trying hard to understand this wave of action because I know when i go, I can do nothing about it. I just want my daughter to know that her mother loved her and her family dearly and that type of love can't be replaced quickly...sherryg

Re: OK my opinion...Like it or not
 

This might be a touchy subject, but I agree with you 100 percent.

I'm a frequent visitor and infrequent poster to this site. My wife passed away 15 months from BC and this was a subject that she forced me to talk often. I didn't want to hear any of this talk because I was convinced that she would beat the disease. She told me, in fact she insisted that I need to move on "eventually" after she's gone. She expected me to mourn, but eventually dust my self off and continue living. It wasn't until she passed did I start replaying these conversations in my head because I really wasn't listening when she was alive, I didn't want to hear it.

I guess everyone is different, but it's been 15 months for me and I'm just starting to think about dating again. I don't have kids, so they aren' t part of the equation. I know I certainly wouldn't be dating 1 or 2 months after my wifes passing, so I really can't understand that.

Just my opinion
John

Re: OK my opinion...Like it or not
 

I certainly don't understand this issue, but I think its different for everybody. My grandfather dated after my grandmother passed away at 55. He lived well into his nineties, but never remarried. I know others who dated right away and remarried quickly. I don't feel that caregivers can be judged, because there are phases for grieving and shock at the loss or change in one's life. Everyone reacts to this differently. That being said, children need to comforted and feel as if they are cared for. It's hard for me to find an excuse for that.
Best regards,
Barbara H.

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A colleague's mother was dying from pancreatic cancer, when her father started seeing their neighbour. Even though my colleague was in her late twenties, she needed to share her feelings with her Dad. He was sharing other feelings with his new lover. It was heartbreaking.

I have 4 kids and if I pass away, I want my husband to find someone. But he needs to cnsider the kids too. Even the big ones, that have moved out. If he does fall in love before they are able to handle it, he has to keep it a secret. He knows! I would spit on him from heaven (or wherever I am by then) if he acted differently.

Love

Jacqueline

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I am speaking for myself only. Sherry, I am right with you. I have an 11 year old daughter too and an 8 year old son. I have told my husband what I expect. He needs to worry about the kids first. Give everybody at least a year to heal and adjust. I have made him promise me that he will always keep my memory alive with the children should he remarry down the road. He also needs to choose very wisely as this women will be in my children's lives. I remind my children that I will always be their mother even when I am really old and I go onto heaven. I can love them from there.
I have wondered if I was the only one with these feelings. I am glad I'm not.

My poor husband would have the added responsiblity of taking care of my mother. I am an only child and she lives on our property in a mother-in-law unit. Humm...I wonder how dating other women will go over with his mother- in- law living behind him ???

Re: OK my opinion...Like it or not
 

Sherry I think I see your point and agree. I have no young children to consider thankfully, and have no problem with my husband finding someone else when I'm gone.
However, I would like to think a decent interval had passed before he did this if only as a mark of respect to my memory and what we meant to each other.

However, I assume we are speaking in general and not about any one person in particular, as I do feel what one person does is their business and was simply stating how I would feel in the same circumstance.

Re: OK my opinion...Like it or not
 

The way I see it.......(as the saying goes)......

"Until you have walked a mile in my shoes don't judge me."

There's a lot of "meat" in that little sentence. Of course, when children are involved, I would think it be a smart idea, as a surviving spouse, to take their needs as their first priority HOWEVER all that being said......until we have been their we really don't know what we would or wouldn't do.

We all have a right to our opinion and we can all think we know what we'd do or what we wouldn't do.....but once again "until you walk a mile in my shoes, don't judge me."

Mary Jo

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Sherry, all I can say to your post is.....Amen and Amen!
Thanks for making this post, I've seen some things and I thought it was just me that felt devestated for the deceased spouse. Glad I'm not alone. Again, thank you.

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Just another thought -

I think the women with young children are extra sensitive to this issue. We are already hurt by the possiblity of not being able to raise our children to adulthood. It is a very real and worrisome problem for us. It is such a huge issue that I sometimes wonder why it isn't discussed more often.

I need to add that, if I were older and my children were settled in their own families, I would feel alot better about this. Again, I'm just talking about me. I know everyone needs to find their own way.

Tonya

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This is a very sensitive subject but one I must say I totally agree with Sherry on. Since I was dx almost 4 yrs ago this is something that has bothered me many times. I know life is for the living but when I see someone bury their spouse/significant other that they loved so completely and within a months time they have already moved on with someone new. It makes me think that in "some" (not all) cases that person already had someone on the side just waiting for the day their spouse passed away. In fact I know of one instance that this poor woman that had battled bc and ovarian cancer for 8 yrs had a bad feeling her husband of 30 plus yrs was cheating on her. Low and behold she was right. The husband had been having an affair with the nurse that was SUPPOSE to be caring for his wife. When the husband & nurse was confronted...they both apologized to the wife but said "We are sorry...but we thought you were going to die". (Gee...thanks alot!!!) I really don't believe that is such an isolated case either. I bet it happens more times then not. JMHO

I really do believe in "time" people need to move on...and if that involves finding someone new that's wonderful. But I have just seen so much the last 4 yrs how much someone deeply loves their significant other & they don't know how they will go on without them when they are gone. But in a couple weeks to a months time they already have someone...how is the possible? Long before I was dx with bc my brother had a friend who's wife had been battling cancer for years. My brother use to joke that his friend Dave was always talking to ALL the ladies. (I'd say he's married....shame on him.) My brother said since his wife is going to die he is just keeping all his options open. Then he'd laugh. I don't find that funny at all. This is a very sore subject to me...it has always bothered me. I would want my husband to move on and find someone to be happy with...but I would be rolling over in my grave if he came to the funeral with his NEW gal pal. I want him to be happy but he could at least wait till my body is cold.

Sherry we think alike because the caregiver comment is another one I totally agree with you about. I've been "both". I've been the bc patient fighting this darned disease...and I've been a caregiver TWICE in my life for two very serious illnesses. My sister with liver disease which passed away. Then a caregiver for my mother with advanced lung cancer which passed away. They both new they were on borrowed time...so was it harder on me or them. Sorry...but I say THEM. Was it easy on me...not even...that was one of the hardest things I did...but they were actually facing their death and they both knew it. As a caregiver as hard as it was for me I knew I was still going to be here...so why we continue to hear it's harder on the caregiver then the patients I do not understand? I've done both and would rather no one have to experience either of these situations. Life is for the living...move on and be happy...I'm all for it. I think what bothers me the most is many times it looks like that person left behind was looking for someone new long before their spouse even passed away? (Even if it's not true...sure makes me wonder at times.)

Chelee

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The Chinese used to (from about 12 Century till early 20th Century) encourage widows to stay 'single' by rewarding them with a huge 'Chastity' Gate at the entrance of the city or town. Many movies have been made on the subject. One of the few 'accomplishments' of the Chinese communist regieme (1949-)is to ban unreasonable traditions such as this (along with the ban on opium and women's foot-binding.) The 'one man, one woman' rule was established when the last Dynasty was overthrown in 1911, but the first 'Republic' could not reform everything as effectively as the harsh and 'psychological' method used by the communists. Though many men (even some who are living in the States) have a 'live-in' partner besides the official wife.

'Not being able to bear a son' is unofficially a well-recognized excuse for the husband to sleep with another woman. And if the 'woman' indeed gives him a son, she will be included in the family right away. One family of such I know of has a shop on the first floor, the 2nd wife living on the 2nd floor with her young son, and the 'big' wife and her children (now all grown and moved out)live on the 3rd floor.

It was a very unfair situation when many men (mainly the accomplished, rich ones) were practicing polygamy, yet the women were encouraged to stay 'single' the rest of their lives if their husband happened to die young.

The practice partially originated from the demand of having a son to carry the family name and continue the ancestor worship. Though there are ways to get around it such as asking the son-in-law (before the engagement or wedding) to agree to changing his family name - usually allowing their 2nd son (if none, than a daughter)to bear the father's orginal family name. One old man in our small community had told us that he loved his then girl friend so much he would have agreed to anything to marry her. "Carrying her last name was the least of my concern." He flew a fighter jet during World war II and later became a flight instructor in the ROC Air Force. All his children used his birth name as their middle name. (In Chinese tradition, there's always a 'remedy' (antidote) for everything as is described in the Kung-fu movies... :)

Before I was married to hubby, I would tell him about Chinese 'legends' such as the ones in which a deceased wife would come back from her grave if the husband was not faithful - he would be 'haunted'. Hubby simply laughed about it. Four life-threatening surgeries later, he found out it is not a laughing matter any more. There are so much stress, so much adjustment, and so many changes involved...

Maslow's hierarchy states (with good data and reasoning behind it) that a person's basic needs (as is described in the award-winning movie - 'Eat, Drink, Man, Woman'")have to be satisfied before he (she) could go on to reach the next level (and ultimately the highest level - 'self-realization'.) I think we all are very understanding about the situation, it's just hard to take it when it is 'happening' to 'us'.

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Maybe this is more of a sore subject for me personally because of how I was raised...and the example my Mother was. My Dad died of a massive heart attack at age 36. That left my Mother alone to raise 3 kids. (Her life was anything but easy.) Her first and only priority was to her kids. She never went out dating...or looking for someone new. Her only focus was taking care of her kids. She told me she didn't want strange men around her kids...she didn't believe in that.

That doesn't mean I agree with it. In fact as years went by I always wished she would of went out to met someone new. She should of, could of...but didn't. She said my Dad was the only one for her and she would never remarry. (and she didn't...and that makes me sad.) I think she missed out on so much...but she tells me she was happy with her choices. You must remember...she was old school. Things are so different now. My Mother was a stay at home Mom and she was always there for us kids...in fact too much. lol She got by on very little but I never wanted for anything...I thought I had it all. Her sisters & brothers all told her she should go out and meet someone as we kids got older. She just never did. As I was much older I'd see men hit on her in the grocery store and other places...but she just smiled and went on with our day. She loved my Father and when he passed away that seemed to be it for her. There is no doubt my Dad wouldn't of wanted my Mother to find someone new "in time". But she said she had 3 kids to protect and raise...and that she did. Kind of sad...but that goes back to maybe this is why this subject rubs me the wrong way. Her kids came first over everything. My Mother truly was one in a million....I was so blessed.

Chelee

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Interesting topic--I remember when I was going through cancer treatment and feeling very pessimistic about my future that I made my husband promise to wait "a year and a day" after my death before getting involved with another woman. I promised that in the event that he died first that I would do the same for him. I still think it is a good rule of thumb--there has to be an appropriate period of mourning before jumping into the next relationship, especially when young children are involved.

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My Father-in-law lost his father during the depression era when Father-in-law was only 11. There were nine kids total in the family and he's the third from the youngest. His mother (hubby's grandmom) raised all the children (except a couple of the older ones who'd already married and left home) by herself - the whole family worked togather as share-croppers.

My Sister-in-law is the only one of the three siblings that was old enough to remember well about 'Nana' who had had a nervous breakdown during World War II when 4 of her sons were sent to the battle fields(a situation very much like what's depicted in 'Saving Private Ryan' except that all of her sons made it back home -one had died prematurely several years after the War because of a lung injury incurred in a battle. And a younger son later went to the Korean War and made it back) and seemed to have passed down some kind of 'depression' genes to her son, her grand daughter and a great-grand daughter (could it be a 'learned-behavior'? Her two brothers didn't seem to be affected that much.)

Oliver Roberts S. had remained a widow untill she passed away in her 70's.

I often hear my Father-in-law stating (especially after he'd prepared a nice meal): "This is how 'Mama' made the [Swiss steak, cabbage...etc.]..." Father-in-law does not believe in the 'depression' gene theory. He thinks anyone in the same situation would have 'lost it'.

I think there is a biological difference between men and women. Although anthropoligists did find a few small, isolated ethnic groups that were dominated by female members - so it shows the 'cultural' influence on the so-called 'human nature'.

Re: OK my opinion...Like it or not
 

Your example does seem particularly callous but I wonder if part of the problem isn't that men don't have male friends they can talk to the way women do??? and therefore need that companionship and of course looking after! I would hope my husband would fall in love again but........not right away!

Re: OK my opinion...Like it or not
 

My dear sisters....how is it that you seem to know my deepest (darkest) thoughts and have the courage to share them openly on this site.

I have struggled internally with the thought of being gone and my husband finding someone to replace me.

Of course this imaginary woman will be prettier, funnier, more accomplished than me.

The only way that I know to push back these negative thoughts are to take control and do many of the things most of you are doing.

* Take the time to analyze your fears so you can communicate them.
*Share you fears with your spouse (sometimes mine surprises me when I actually talk to him)
*Put together items to gift to your children in case you aren't around. It will be wonderful when are are here to hand them the gifts in person....but.....Example:
During this journey I've found more pennies/ heads up than ever. I have a jar of them and will give them as a precious gift to my daughter to show that there is always hope and god sends us messages.

Quickly build memories...we make a fort every year behind the Christmas tree and read books among the twinkling lights.

And on a lighter note.....monogram everything that you can get your hands on!! (OK...maybe not everything)

Spend our energy enjoying each and every day with our husbands and families. That way it will make it tougher for Wife #2 to replace us!!!

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Lori, your post made me think. When I met my husband, he had been divorced for two years. His ex-wife had left him for another man. Still, she wasn't pleased when he met me. So I called her and talked to her about how we were going to raise the kids, as they didn't ask to be in this situation. I know of at least one other stepmom who acted like that. If your husband would look carefully, he could find a woman who isn't threatened by your memory, who will keep your memory alive.

When I first met my husband and we started dating, he said to me: You have to know one thing: my children will always come first and their mother is the best mom in the world. If you can deal with that, I would love to explore what we have together. If not, I think it should end here.
I agreed with him. In fact, I admired him for being so straightforward. We now have 4 sons, 2 from his first marriage, and two we had together. The eldest two are as much part of the fabric of our family as are the other two.

So if husbands would start a new relationship like that, I think it could work out. I just hope mine would do it like that again.

Jacqueline

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"I wonder if part of the problem isn't that men don't have male friends they can talk to the way women do??? and therefore need that companionship and of course looking after!"

Hmmm. That's interesting. Despite astute observations that there are biological differences between men and women(Yes, I get it ;), I wonder if the real issue is the fact that couples can become a world unto themselves and when that world comes apart, and there's no other strong support stepping up, there is a desire to recreate that. Ok..pretty basic assumption as well. Let me explain. Being single, I notice many friends don't have time for friends once they get married. I totally understand it, especially when children are born. But I wonder if folks with really strong friend networks begin dating as early as those that don't. I know at least one occassion where I lost a close friend and soon thereafter found myself pursuing a realtionship that really wasn't right but I was filling in blanks myself trying to make it seem right. Because it really felt like a little sun pouring in during a dark time. After I started leaning on my family and friends, I could eventually see what was going on. Eh..it's a "hypothesis generating" question. Now I shut my pie hole.

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Sherry... thanks for bringing up a topic that many of us think about - but never talk about, let alone acknowledge.

I remember a few years ago (before I was diagnosed) being outraged after hearing about the husband of a neighbour who died of bc. She was a truly wonderful woman and he appeared to be a very supportive husband. Within six months, he met another woman - an extremely wealthy woman - and after marrying her, he declared that he had "never been happier" in his life. Perhaps the French chateau and the new life style had something to do with it.

I remember my friend and I both going beserck one night which really amused our husbands. We felt so strongly that this was such a slap in the face to his late wife to hear this man go on and on about his wonderful new life. We still go on a rant about it when it comes up and we've warned our husbands we will haunt them to eternity if they ever pull something like that. Which only makes them laugh more .

So yes - of course one wants their spouse to wait a respectful time. And none of us wants to judge because who knows really what anyone's life is really like?

But this seemed to be beyond the pale and all I could think of is that this sweet woman whose life ended far too soon never deserved to be married to a jerk like that.

Sorry for sounding off -you just hit a raw chord with me - and it's a worthwhile discussion.

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I'm with MaryJo...again. You really can't judge what's best for someone else. Of course when it's your own kids you're concerned about, ok you should definitely have the first voice in that matter, but you never know how others really feel and if it's what's best for them or not.