Metformin, anything new?
 

Hello,
I'm seeing my onc on Thursday and wondered if there is anything new about taking Metformin for cancer patients - particularly HER2+,ER+ patients?
I do still eat chocolate and take sugar in my coffee, I'm sadly addicted.
thanks
sarah

Re: Metformin, anything new?
 

Just wanted to say if chocolate improves your quality of life then I say eat a little chocolate!

Re: Metformin, anything new?
 

I second the chocolate in moderation for QoL.

Re: Metformin, anything new?
 

Hi
Got to have some pleasure - Just love my coffee & cake or piece of chocolate!!

Re: Metformin, anything new?
 

Thanks for the chocolate support! I think chocolate helped me when I worked since I often ended up working for narcissistic, spoilt brats!
I'll ask my onc tomorrow about Metformin, trying to think if I should print something out or not. It was invented in France so he may know the drug.
health and happiness in this New Year.
love sarah

Re: Metformin, anything new?
 

Let us know what you find out!

Re: Metformin, anything new?
 

I’ve never heard of Metformin before, but just read that it ‘s for type 2 diabetes. Could this drug possibly help with HER II positive cancer patients?

¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬ ¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬
12/15 – First mammogram
01/16 – Second mammogram and ultrasound.
01/16 – Meet surgeon and go for third mammogram, second ultrasound and biopsy. Surgeon confirms cancer in left breast and lymph nodes and sets surgery date.
01/16 – Chest scan and bone scan done– all looks good.
02/16 – Surgery - left breast mastectomy and 16 lymph nodes removed (8 had cancer).
02/16 – CT scan done – small nodules on lung but Doctor advises it’s normal. They will continue to monitor just in case.
03/16 – Meet radiation oncologist and find out results of Pathology Report. I’m told that I have locally advanced breast cancer, based on the size of my tumour (7 cm!) and the fact that they found cancer cells in eight lymph nodes. I’m also told that I’m HER 2 positive, with high levels of estrogen and progesterone and that my cancer is stage 3, grade 2.
03/16 – Meet oncologist and am told that my cancer is actually grade 3, and that I should have done chemo before surgery. Too late now!
03/16 – Start first of six doses of chemo (Carboplatin and Docetaxal) and Herceptin (for one year).
04/16 – Have port put in.
04/16 – Get second dose of chemo, but Docetaxal is left out due to liver enzymes being high. I was unable to get a full dose of Docetaxal after my first treatment.
06/16 – Finished chemo! One month off and then I start radiation.
06/16 – Start Tamoxifen.
07/16 – First radiation treatment – 24 more to go!
08/16 – Went for Genetic Testing to see if I have the BRCA gene. Tested negative for BRCA I and II
08/16 – Radiation oncologist biopsies “scar tissue” on my scar. I am told that I have a “local recurrence” and need to have rush surgery.
09/16 – Meet surgeon who advises that I need to meet with a plastic surgeon, as they will need to do a skin graft to close me up after surgery. Meet plastic surgeon and all looks good. A surgery date is set for October 4.
09/16 – Go for rush ultrasound, bone scan, breast MRI and CT scan.
09/16 – Meet oncologist who advises that the ultrasound and bone scan results look good, and that MRI shows three small masses at surgery site, but lymph nodes are clear. Still awaiting the results of the CT scan, but we are positive it will look good.
09/16 – Get a call from my oncologist, who advises that CT scan shows small spots on my lungs, and a large lymph node in the middle of my chest. This means the cancer has spread! She looks into getting me funded for TDM1 and cancels my surgery.
10/16 – Meet oncologist, who advises that I have to take Perjeta before I can take TDM1. I start Perjeta/Herceptin every three weeks for an indefinite amount of time, and Taxol, which I will take two weeks in a row with one week off and then two weeks in a row for 8-16 treatments. Stop Tamoxifen.
10/16 – Meet surgeon, who reviews my CT scan and advises that the spots on my lungs may not be cancer, and that he doesn’t see a lymph node in my chest. He thinks it’s a spot on my lung. I’m feeling very confused! He advises that my oncologist doesn’t want me to have surgery to remove the three small masses on my scar line, as she wants to use them as a way to determine if the treatment is working. He advises that if they have not shrunk in 6 months, he will revisit surgery.
10/16 – CEA blood test to determine Tumour markers. Results were normal (2.7). My doctor advises that this could mean two things: (1) that the treatment is working, and the tumours are shrinking, or (2), that I'm one of those people who never get elevated CEA levels. Given that some people never get an elevated CEA level, this test doesn’t seem very accurate to me! Asked for PET scan, but am told I don’t qualify.
10/16 – Brain MRI – NED!
11/16 - CA-15-30 blood test – Tumour markers are normal at 19.
11/16 – Second CEA blood test – Tumours markers are still normal at 1.6
11/16 – Second CA-15-30 bloot test – Tumour markers are still normal at 19
11/16 – Develop lymphedema and have to wear a sleeve
12/16 – CT Scan shows that the tumors on my lungs and the lymph node in the middle of my chest are shrinking, and that some have resolved. Also, the small masses along my scar line are no longer visible. This means the medication is working!
12/16 – Small “pimple” shows up where old tumour on chest wall was located. Doctor is going to biopsy it in early January to see if it’s cancer.

Re: Metformin, anything new?
 

https://www.nytimes.com/2016/05/15/m...eath.html?_r=0

I'm on it, no idea if doing any good. Onc made me sign waiver to write script.

Re: Metformin, anything new?
 

I briefly read the article, and I’ve heard about this theory before. My aunt even tried the “starvation” diet when she had cancer, but she found it too hard to follow. Does taking Metformin help to reduce glucose in the body, and starve the cancer? I’m going to look into this a little more, and maybe even ask my doctor about it when I see her next week.

¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬ ¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬
12/15 – First mammogram
01/16 – Second mammogram and ultrasound.
01/16 – Meet surgeon and go for third mammogram, second ultrasound and biopsy. Surgeon confirms cancer in left breast and lymph nodes and sets surgery date.
01/16 – Chest scan and bone scan done– all looks good.
02/16 – Surgery - left breast mastectomy and 16 lymph nodes removed (8 had cancer).
02/16 – CT scan done – small nodules on lung but Doctor advises it’s normal. They will continue to monitor just in case.
03/16 – Meet radiation oncologist and find out results of Pathology Report. I’m told that I have locally advanced breast cancer, based on the size of my tumour (7 cm!) and the fact that they found cancer cells in eight lymph nodes. I’m also told that I’m HER 2 positive, with high levels of estrogen and progesterone and that my cancer is stage 3, grade 2.
03/16 – Meet oncologist and am told that my cancer is actually grade 3, and that I should have done chemo before surgery. Too late now!
03/16 – Start first of six doses of chemo (Carboplatin and Docetaxal) and Herceptin (for one year).
04/16 – Have port put in.
04/16 – Get second dose of chemo, but Docetaxal is left out due to liver enzymes being high. I was unable to get a full dose of Docetaxal after my first treatment.
06/16 – Finished chemo! One month off and then I start radiation.
06/16 – Start Tamoxifen.
07/16 – First radiation treatment – 24 more to go!
08/16 – Went for Genetic Testing to see if I have the BRCA gene. Tested negative for BRCA I and II
08/16 – Radiation oncologist biopsies “scar tissue” on my scar. I am told that I have a “local recurrence” and need to have rush surgery.
09/16 – Meet surgeon who advises that I need to meet with a plastic surgeon, as they will need to do a skin graft to close me up after surgery. Meet plastic surgeon and all looks good. A surgery date is set for October 4.
09/16 – Go for rush ultrasound, bone scan, breast MRI and CT scan.
09/16 – Meet oncologist who advises that the ultrasound and bone scan results look good, and that MRI shows three small masses at surgery site, but lymph nodes are clear. Still awaiting the results of the CT scan, but we are positive it will look good.
09/16 – Get a call from my oncologist, who advises that CT scan shows small spots on my lungs, and a large lymph node in the middle of my chest. This means the cancer has spread! She looks into getting me funded for TDM1 and cancels my surgery.
10/16 – Meet oncologist, who advises that I have to take Perjeta before I can take TDM1. I start Perjeta/Herceptin every three weeks for an indefinite amount of time, and Taxol, which I will take two weeks in a row with one week off and then two weeks in a row for 8-16 treatments. Stop Tamoxifen.
10/16 – Meet surgeon, who reviews my CT scan and advises that the spots on my lungs may not be cancer, and that he doesn’t see a lymph node in my chest. He thinks it’s a spot on my lung. I’m feeling very confused! He advises that my oncologist doesn’t want me to have surgery to remove the three small masses on my scar line, as she wants to use them as a way to determine if the treatment is working. He advises that if they have not shrunk in 6 months, he will revisit surgery.
10/16 – CEA blood test to determine Tumour markers. Results were normal (2.7). My doctor advises that this could mean two things: (1) that the treatment is working, and the tumours are shrinking, or (2), that I'm one of those people who never get elevated CEA levels. Given that some people never get an elevated CEA level, this test doesn’t seem very accurate to me! Asked for PET scan, but am told I don’t qualify.
10/16 – Brain MRI – NED!
11/16 - CA-15-30 blood test – Tumour markers are normal at 19.
11/16 – Second CEA blood test – Tumours markers are still normal at 1.6
11/16 – Second CA-15-30 bloot test – Tumour markers are still normal at 19
11/16 – Develop lymphedema and have to wear a sleeve
12/16 – CT Scan shows that the tumors on my lungs and the lymph node in the middle of my chest are shrinking, and that some have resolved. Also, the small masses along my scar line are no longer visible. This means the medication is working!
12/16 – Small “pimple” shows up where old tumour on chest wall was located. Doctor is going to biopsy it in early January to see if it’s cancer.

Re: Metformin, anything new?
 

OK, saw my onc (in France) and asked about Metformin. He said so far tests do not show that it helps. He saw no problem taking it
but as far as the glucose goes, it's different - Diabetes and Cancer so not helpful there. I think if I'd asked him for a prescription, he would have given it to me since he saw no downsides or bad side effects. There's a big BC conference in Nice in February so maybe some interesting things will come out it.
health and happiness
Sarah

Re: Metformin, anything new?
 

Metformin stimulates the action of an Enzyme called AMP Kinase. This is how it helps lower blood sugar. One of the results of AMP Kinase stimulation is a reduction of the action of M-Tor. It seems to have anti cancer and anti stem cell action. The possible anti-cancer action of Metformin was first thought of when it was found that diabetic patients taking metformin has lower cancer rates epidemiologically

Paul

Re: Metformin, anything new?
 

Thanks Paul sounds like there's no reason not to give it a try.
Sarah

Re: Metformin, anything new?
 

Thanks Paul. I think I’m going to ask my doctor about it when I see her tomorrow.

¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬ ¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬
12/15 – First mammogram
01/16 – Second mammogram and ultrasound.
01/16 – Meet surgeon and go for third mammogram, second ultrasound and biopsy. Surgeon confirms cancer in left breast and lymph nodes and sets surgery date.
01/16 – Chest scan and bone scan done– all looks good.
02/16 – Surgery - left breast mastectomy and 16 lymph nodes removed (8 had cancer).
02/16 – CT scan done – small nodules on lung but Doctor advises it’s normal. They will continue to monitor just in case.
03/16 – Meet radiation oncologist and find out results of Pathology Report. I’m told that I have locally advanced breast cancer, based on the size of my tumour (7 cm!) and the fact that they found cancer cells in eight lymph nodes. I’m also told that I’m HER 2 positive, with high levels of estrogen and progesterone and that my cancer is stage 3, grade 2.
03/16 – Meet oncologist and am told that my cancer is actually grade 3, and that I should have done chemo before surgery. Too late now!
03/16 – Start first of six doses of chemo (Carboplatin and Docetaxal) and Herceptin (for one year).
04/16 – Have port put in.
04/16 – Get second dose of chemo, but Docetaxal is left out due to liver enzymes being high. I was unable to get a full dose of Docetaxal after my first treatment.
06/16 – Finished chemo! One month off and then I start radiation.
06/16 – Start Tamoxifen.
07/16 – First radiation treatment – 24 more to go!
08/16 – Went for Genetic Testing to see if I have the BRCA gene. Tested negative for BRCA I and II
08/16 – Radiation oncologist biopsies “scar tissue” on my scar. I am told that I have a “local recurrence” and need to have rush surgery.
09/16 – Meet surgeon who advises that I need to meet with a plastic surgeon, as they will need to do a skin graft to close me up after surgery. Meet plastic surgeon and all looks good. A surgery date is set for October 4.
09/16 – Go for rush ultrasound, bone scan, breast MRI and CT scan.
09/16 – Meet oncologist who advises that the ultrasound and bone scan results look good, and that MRI shows three small masses at surgery site, but lymph nodes are clear. Still awaiting the results of the CT scan, but we are positive it will look good.
09/16 – Get a call from my oncologist, who advises that CT scan shows small spots on my lungs, and a large lymph node in the middle of my chest. This means the cancer has spread! She looks into getting me funded for TDM1 and cancels my surgery.
10/16 – Meet oncologist, who advises that I have to take Perjeta before I can take TDM1. I start Perjeta/Herceptin every three weeks for an indefinite amount of time, and Taxol, which I will take two weeks in a row with one week off and then two weeks in a row for 8-16 treatments. Stop Tamoxifen.
10/16 – Meet surgeon, who reviews my CT scan and advises that the spots on my lungs may not be cancer, and that he doesn’t see a lymph node in my chest. He thinks it’s a spot on my lung. I’m feeling very confused! He advises that my oncologist doesn’t want me to have surgery to remove the three small masses on my scar line, as she wants to use them as a way to determine if the treatment is working. He advises that if they have not shrunk in 6 months, he will revisit surgery.
10/16 – CEA blood test to determine Tumour markers. Results were normal (2.7). My doctor advises that this could mean two things: (1) that the treatment is working, and the tumours are shrinking, or (2), that I'm one of those people who never get elevated CEA levels. Given that some people never get an elevated CEA level, this test doesn’t seem very accurate to me! Asked for PET scan, but am told I don’t qualify.
10/16 – Brain MRI – NED!
11/16 - CA-15-30 blood test – Tumour markers are normal at 19.
11/16 – Second CEA blood test – Tumours markers are still normal at 1.6
11/16 – Second CA-15-30 bloot test – Tumour markers are still normal at 19
11/16 – Develop lymphedema and have to wear a sleeve
12/16 – CT Scan shows that the tumors on my lungs and the lymph node in the middle of my chest are shrinking, and that some have resolved. Also, the small masses along my scar line are no longer visible. This means the medication is working!
12/16 – Small “pimple” shows up where old tumour on chest wall was located. Doctor is going to biopsy it in early January to see if it’s cancer.

Re: Metformin, anything new?
 

Tiffany

Metformin is relatively safe. The one thing you have to watch is renal function. If a womans serum creatine reaches 1.4 there is a possible and serious problem with Lactic Acidosis. In the pharmacies we used to dispense a medicine called Phenformin or DBI-TD.
This drug was pulled off the market by the FDA around 1986 because of fatal cases of Lactic Acidosis. Metformin is a much safer Phenformin.

Interestingly Metformin can increase the mean life span of mice. This has nothing to do with cancer. Apparently stimulating that AMPK enzymes micis some of the biochemical effects of calorie reduction which long ago was shown to increase the life span of lab mice

Re: Metformin, anything new?
 

An HER2 member on a Metformin trial sent me a PM and said I could post her info but that she was too exhausted at present to post. Therefore I am posting 2 of the websites she kindly mentioned. She's triple positive.
Thanks also Donocco for this info. It certainly does sound as if Metformin is worth considering.
​

her info :

Https://academic.oup.com/annonc/arti...t-for-cancer-a


https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/25740979

My endocrinologist is a huge fan of metformin, probably for the reasons outlined in the last link. Overall, it has many benefits with a very low risk of side effects. He has agreed to continue a prescription for me, even after the study ends."

Re: Metformin, anything new?
 

I spoke to my doctor about Metformin today, and she advised that our clinic took part in a study regarding Metformin a few years ago, and it only showed results in people who were estrogen and progesterone negative. She said that there was no evidence that it was helpful to people who were HER II positive. Consequently, she did not write me a prescription for the Drug.

¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬ ¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬
12/15 – First mammogram
01/16 – Second mammogram and ultrasound.
01/16 – Meet surgeon and go for third mammogram, second ultrasound and biopsy. Surgeon confirms cancer in left breast and lymph nodes and sets surgery date.
01/16 – Chest scan and bone scan done– all looks good.
02/16 – Surgery - left breast mastectomy and 16 lymph nodes removed (8 had cancer).
02/16 – CT scan done – small nodules on lung but Doctor advises it’s normal. They will continue to monitor just in case.
03/16 – Meet radiation oncologist and find out results of Pathology Report. I’m told that I have locally advanced breast cancer, based on the size of my tumour (7 cm!) and the fact that they found cancer cells in eight lymph nodes. I’m also told that I’m HER 2 positive, with high levels of estrogen and progesterone and that my cancer is stage 3, grade 2.
03/16 – Meet oncologist and am told that my cancer is actually grade 3, and that I should have done chemo before surgery. Too late now!
03/16 – Start first of six doses of chemo (Carboplatin and Docetaxal) and Herceptin (for one year).
04/16 – Have port put in.
04/16 – Get second dose of chemo, but Docetaxal is left out due to liver enzymes being high. I was unable to get a full dose of Docetaxal after my first treatment.
06/16 – Finished chemo! One month off and then I start radiation.
06/16 – Start Tamoxifen.
07/16 – First radiation treatment – 24 more to go!
08/16 – Went for Genetic Testing to see if I have the BRCA gene. Tested negative for BRCA I and II
08/16 – Radiation oncologist biopsies “scar tissue” on my scar. I am told that I have a “local recurrence” and need to have rush surgery.
09/16 – Meet surgeon who advises that I need to meet with a plastic surgeon, as they will need to do a skin graft to close me up after surgery. Meet plastic surgeon and all looks good. A surgery date is set for October 4.
09/16 – Go for rush ultrasound, bone scan, breast MRI and CT scan.
09/16 – Meet oncologist who advises that the ultrasound and bone scan results look good, and that MRI shows three small masses at surgery site, but lymph nodes are clear. Still awaiting the results of the CT scan, but we are positive it will look good.
09/16 – Get a call from my oncologist, who advises that CT scan shows small spots on my lungs, and a large lymph node in the middle of my chest. This means the cancer has spread! She looks into getting me funded for TDM1 and cancels my surgery.
10/16 – Meet oncologist, who advises that I have to take Perjeta before I can take TDM1. I start Perjeta/Herceptin every three weeks for an indefinite amount of time, and Taxol, which I will take two weeks in a row with one week off and then two weeks in a row for 8-16 treatments. Stop Tamoxifen.
10/16 – Meet surgeon, who reviews my CT scan and advises that the spots on my lungs may not be cancer, and that he doesn’t see a lymph node in my chest. He thinks it’s a spot on my lung. I’m feeling very confused! He advises that my oncologist doesn’t want me to have surgery to remove the three small masses on my scar line, as she wants to use them as a way to determine if the treatment is working. He advises that if they have not shrunk in 6 months, he will revisit surgery.
10/16 – CEA blood test to determine Tumour markers. Results were normal (2.7). My doctor advises that this could mean two things: (1) that the treatment is working, and the tumours are shrinking, or (2), that I'm one of those people who never get elevated CEA levels. Given that some people never get an elevated CEA level, this test doesn’t seem very accurate to me! Asked for PET scan, but am told I don’t qualify.
10/16 – Brain MRI – NED!
11/16 - CA-15-30 blood test – Tumour markers are normal at 19.
11/16 – Second CEA blood test – Tumours markers are still normal at 1.6
11/16 – Second CA-15-30 bloot test – Tumour markers are still normal at 19
11/16 – Develop lymphedema and have to wear a sleeve
12/16 – CT Scan shows that the tumors on my lungs and the lymph node in the middle of my chest are shrinking, and that some have resolved. Also, the small masses along my scar line are no longer visible. This means the medication is working!
12/16 – Small “pimple” shows up where old tumour on chest wall was located. Doctor is going to biopsy it in early January to see if it’s cancer.

Re: Metformin, anything new?
 

I am in a Metformin study. About a year ago a preliminary analysis of their data showed that there was zero impact on ER- patients, so all ER- patients were taken off the drug (including me). As far as I know ER+ patients are still on the drug in the study.

Re: Metformin, anything new?
 

Ill research this for you. Logically it doesnt make sense but pharmacology isnt always logical. For instance pts with colon cancer given 800mg Cimetidine daily starting 2 weeks before surgery had twice the 10 year survival of those not getting Cimetidine. Cimetidine is a Histamine 2 receptor blocker. So is Ranitidine (Zantac) and there are others. Logically all Histmaine h2 blockers should have this life extending effect in colon cancer but it seems only Cimetidine (Tagamet) does.

Metformin has action against stem cells and Im sure ER- breast cancer cells form stem cells. Metformin decreases insulin resistance and decreases serum Insulin and probably Insulin growth factor so should have an anti-cancer action, at least in theory. The anti-cancer action of Metformin involves activation oof AMPK kinase and decrease M-Tor action. I didnt realize the estrogen receptor was that involved in the situation. Ill check this out. By the way brocolli has an anticancer substane in it ie Indole-Carboxamide or something like that. Its hard to keep these things in your head

Paul

Re: Metformin, anything new?
 

I did some very prelinary research. That study showing only ER postive patients apparently was done in patients who also had diabetes. The concurrent diabetes may have an an influence.

There was an article in the journal Biomed Research International Volume 2015 written in Oct 2014. It was fairly long and I just skimmed through it. There was one long sentence that I found intersting: "In vitro studies strongly support the role for Metformin in the treatment for most if not all of the subtypes of breast cancer especially the hard to treat Triple Negative Breast Cancer.

The anti-cancer effect of Metformin in TNBC cells is in the test tube so we cant say the actual effect in treatment. Still in theory, Metformin should be useful. Ill resarch this further as today I only skimmed through it. M aybe there will be something more substantial. I dont understand the doctors ending the Metformin prescriptions based on one study when there seem to be others that contradict the results.

Paul

Re: Metformin, anything new?
 

Thank you Paul
Good health
Sarah