How much protein?

[Mtngrl]

The literature I was given says "eat more protein." I find that unhelpful. To begin with, they don't know how much protein I eat, so how can they say I need more? And I have found nothing that says how much I should be getting. Is there a guideline with any research behind it? I'm looking for something like n grams of protein per kg of body weight. Anyone?

I did see the link to the AARP article saying women should get 46 gm per day. Again, not helpful. What size woman needs 46 gm per day? Does that apply to women with metastatic breast cancer? How much is too much? To me, 46 gm seems low.

[Henny]

Hi Mtngrl,

When I started chemo I consulted with a naturopath who specialized in working with cancer patients (being a survivor himself). He reviewed my diet and recommended adding an egg per day for extra protien and protien smoothies. He also recommended a few other things to help with the effects of chemo on my gut but I can't remember what they all were (not from chemo brain just moving on after treatment)
You might want to try this kind of tailored approach to support yourself during treatment. This is a tough time for you so treat yourself as well as you can and before you know it it will be behind you

All the best

Henny

[Jackie07]

This link provides the newest food portion guideline from USDA:

http://www.choosemyplate.gov/

If you have a food processor, you can make meatloaf which is easy to chew and will keep for several days (freeze half and eat it at another week) Beans (including Tofu) and peas are also good protein sources.

[Mtngrl]

Thanks, Henny and Jackie!

[Jackie07]

Here's the dietary guideline from Johns Hopkins:

http://www.hopkinsmedicine.org/avon_foundation_breast_center/treatments_services/nutrition.html

[pibikay]

Thanks Jackie for the link

[Mtngrl]

I found two articles that have the same answer, which is that people undergoing chemotherapy should get 1.5 gm of protein per kg of body weight per day, which is about double the usual amount. Here's one of them: http://www.published-articles.com/Art/29313/278/Protein-Requirement-in-Chemotherapy.html

[Jackie07]

Kevin MD has a new article about the new USDA food guideline www.choosemyplate.gov (http://www.choosemyplate.gov) Notice the third point: Eat protein at every meal.

More healthy eating tips to add to the USDA food plate
By James Haddad
At its release, Agriculture Secretary Tom Vilsack criticized the food pyramid for being “too complex to serve as a quick and easy guide for American families” – I completely agree, and have always felt this way. The food pyramid was the kind of thing you could completely forget after browsing – that, or leave with the message “eat lots of carbohydrates” (a terrible recommendation for most, in my eyes) – far from ideal.
Michelle Obama asked, “What’s more simple than a plate? I’m confident that families … can start using this today.“ Without a doubt, the visual cue of a plate is far more useful than the old pyramid – people can now use the USDA guidelines as they prepare meals, whereas before they were essentially given seemingly
arbitrary goals to meet each day (which were not only quickly forgotten, but difficult to keep track of).
In my opinion, there are still problems with some of USDA’s suggestions, but there may never be consensus on such matters. I also take issue with the fact that the only advice I can find on portion control is “Avoid oversized portions.”
I submit to you the “Tip of the Day” I found when I visited the MyPlate website while drafting this article:
Consider convenience when shopping. Buy pre-cut packages of fruit (such as melon or pineapple chunks) for a healthy snack in seconds.
I would actually argue the contrary – convenience should be avoided when shopping, as seeking it will usually pull you away from unadulterated, healthy choices, and towards commercialized, overpriced junk. The above tip may be fine for a family with superfluous income, but items like pre-cut fruit and 100-calorie packs are usually overpriced and are just not what most families should be buying. Eating healthy does take a bit of work, and we shouldn’t shy away from that (portion control, in particular, is an area where we would be wise to avoid having food corporations make decisions for us).


The above considered, I thought this would be a good time to share some of my own tips for healthy eating (http://www.kevinmd.com/blog/2011/04/healthy-plan-dining.html). These are my bare-bones recommendations:

No soda/pop, juice drinks, sports drinks, or fruit juices. This is #1 because I firmly believe it’s the best thing Americans can do for their health: stop drinking your calories! Drink water, milk, unsweetened tea or coffee, and eat fresh fruit instead of drinking juice (which is in most cases just as bad as soda). I also believe we should be avoiding artificially-sweetened beverages, but this will be reserved for a future article (baby steps).


Eat more fiber. Since before I even began my formal medical education, when people would ask me the one thing they could do to improve their diet, my answer was always fiber. Fiber has been shown to lower cholesterol, control blood sugar levels, and help with weight loss and bowel health. Research on fiber and colon cancer has been thus far equivocal, but I strongly suspect a protective effect will be revealed in the future.


Eat protein at every meal. Like fiber, protein will help you feel satisfied after a meal (so will fat, as it slows the rate at which your stomach empties!). Protein does not necessarily have to come from meat or eggs – beans, nuts, certain grains, and dairy are great sources of protein for those who avoid meat. As a bonus, protein is more energetically costly to digest, giving it a higher Thermic Effect of Food (TEF) (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thermic_effect_of_food).


Use only natural fats & oils. Information about hydrogenated oils being linked to poor heart health has been well-disseminated, but they have also been linked to other health conditions including diabetes, Alzheimer’s disease, and even depression – we would do well to avoid them whenever we can. Use real butter, olive oil, sesame oil, etc. and eat natural fatty foods (real peanut butter, plain dark chocolate, avocados, etc.). One of my biggest pet peeves is low-fat peanut butter: natural peanut butter (or better, almond butter) can be a good source of healthy fats, while reduced fat peanut butter is a good source of nothing (it’s processing essentially removes its health benefits and replaces them with fillers and sugar).
Don’t mistake the critical eye of the above paragraphs as disapproval – I think this overhaul is a step in the right direction and was long overdue. Time will tell if American families will respond better to this educational tool than its predecessors.

[TanyaRD]

Sorry to be a little late in this conversation but I thought I'd share the calculations we use for patients. For an average, healthy individual we use 0.8g/kg of protein. Depending on individual health and circumstances I would increase that calculation accordingly. On average for my patients with breast cancer undergoing treatment with no complications I would estimate protein at 1.2g/kg. Hope that helps in addition to that which you have already received.

[Jackie07]

Thanks, Tonya.

Somebody must have tipped off the editors at www.Cookinglight.com (http://www.Cookinglight.com), for they just put this 'protein special' on their website today:

http://www.cookinglight.com/healthy-living/fitness/protein-rich-foods-00412000071660/?iid=newsletter-ck-062211&PromKey=XET

[Mtngrl]

Thank you, Tonya. That was the answer I was looking for when I started the thread.

[Mtngrl]

@Aldens--I was a vegetarian in the 70's when Diet for a Small Planet came out, and I've been interested in nutrition all my life. However, I asked how many grams of protein per day per kilogram of body weight, not for a short list of protein sources. For the record, an egg has 6 grams of high-quality protein (i.e. it has all the essential amino acids, in the right proportions.) I'm a pretty big person (even at my ideal weight, which I currently exceed), so I'd need to eat a lot of eggs to hit the target of 1.5 gm. per kg per day.

Since I posted the question I've had 11 rounds of chemo. My blood counts are always normal, and the side effects are pretty manageable, so apparently I'm doing something right. Thanks to everyone who contributed to the discussion.

[TanyaRD]

Amy,
We have some trouble with spammers from time to time and I believe that might have been one. You can often tell by the link they have at the bottom referring to a gym, trainer, supplement, etc. We continue to work to keep the site secure.

[PatriceH]

Livestrong.com has a good tracking tool called Myplate. It helps you track foods you eat and will calculate calories, protein and carb measurements and ratios.

[NEDenise]

Amy,
First, and foremost, I was so glad to read in your signature that your liver mets are responding to treatment! Keep doing what you're doing!

Now, related to protein...
I too, currently exceed my ideal weight. (lol)
I wonder, if you don't mind sharing...NO! I'm not going to ask your weight!...I'm wondering...do you find it difficult to get all the protein you need? (using Tanya's 1.2kg multiplier)

By my calculations, I'd need more than 90g of protein each day. That's a LOT of protein. I'm going to start keeping track, but I don't think I'm even coming close to that on most days.

Thanks!
Denise

[TanyaRD]

Denise,
90g certainly can feel like a lot of protein. If you are currently undergoing treatment I would recommend pushing for that amount, however, when you are on Herceptin alone for one year you could probably back off to the 0.8g/kg. Sometimes it is appropriate to use your "target" weight or an adjusted weight to calculate protein if you are carrying extra weight. I would recommend checking with the dietitian at your center. If they don't have one on site they often have someone they can refer you to.

Best wishes.

Tanya

[NEDenise]

Thanks, Tanya!
I'm actually finished chemo (except herceptin), but I'm having surgery in about a week, so I'm assuming that protein is vital for healing then too...so I'll should for 90 for a while.
I also have to find a source for calculating the protein in foods besides meats and beans. I'm probably eating lots of plant proteins that I'm not even considering in my total.
Thanks, again,
Denise

[rhondalea]

Denise,

If you keep a food diary, it will tell you how much protein you're getting.

I use the FitDay PC software, but FitDay also has a free online diary at http://www.fitday.com/.

Others (3 of many available on the web) can be found here:

http://nutritiondata.self.com/

http://fatsecret.com/

http://www.livestrong.com/myplate/

If I weren't using FitDay, I think I would use NutritionData because the nutrient breakdown is the most extensive I've seen.

Some of the sites have smartphone apps too, which means you can keep track on the go.

I get about 115-125 grams protein/day. (Usual weight is around 141, except after steroidal pre-meds. Every chemo, I gain 5-7 pounds overnight, but it all comes off again in 2 or 3 days.)

[NEDenise]

Thanks!
I'll look into these.
Have a great day!
Denise

[Mtngrl]

I don't think I ever hit the "target" while I was on chemo. Now that I'm off, I'm not as focused on protein. I try to make sure I get some high-quality protein every time I eat, but I'm not rigid about it.

I was a vegetarian in the 70's when we all read Diet for a Small Planet and thought we had to combine "incomplete" protein sources precisely and at the same meal. (Beans and brown rice, beans and corn, wheat and soy, etc.) It turns out that if you have a small intestine your body will do that for you. Get enough to eat so you're not burning protein for fuel (not a problem in my case--I'm overweight), and eat a variety of foods, and there should be enough protein. (Avoiding junk food and eating mostly whole, unprocessed or lightly processed food is important.) Having milk, yogurt or cheese every day is also good "insurance" that incomplete plant proteins will be complemented, and all the essential amino acids will be present.

[Mtngrl]

I'm back on chemo so I'm bumping up this thread.

We finally figured out you should shoot for 1.2 gm protein per kg of body weight per day when you're on chemo. There are 2.2 lbs in a kg. So for me that comes to around 80 gm protein per day.

I figure if I get three or four 20 gm servings of high-quality protein every day, that will be more than enough, because whole grains, beans, and vegetables also supply protein.

I did a little chart for a friend who's newly-diagnosed, but just copying it into this message didn't work. Foods that deliver around 20 gm protein per serving at a reasonable calorie cost include 8 oz Greek yogurt; 3 eggs; 3 oz chicken, fish, or beef; 1/2 cup lentils; 1 cup navy beans; 1 can sardines; 1 scoop whey protein powder (in a smoothie).