OK my opinion...Like it or not

[Sherryg683]

After being diagnosed as Stage IV I began thinking alot about my death and how it would effect my family. My daughter is 11. My best friend died when she was 40, leaving 2 young boys behind, within months her husband was dating again while her boys were being shipped off to friends house. He only seemed to care about this "angel" god had sent him. It just seems that there has been a trend of where the spouces are already dating someone before the body of their loved one has gotten cold. I just don't understand this. Especially in the case where children are involved. What are you teaching your child when you bring home another woman or man that soon, it would seem to me to teach them that "mom or dad was pretty replaceable." I have made it clear to my husband that I expect him to do the right thing and put in a good amount of time in making sure my children get the help they needed and him spending time with them, they are going to need it. He will just have to put his primal needs on hold for a while, that's what makes him a responsible adult. I have no problem down the road if he finds a nice woman to spend the rest of his life with and who will love our children, then he will have my blessing from heaven. But it's not going to happen within months of my death. I'll be throwing hot grits at him from wherever I end up...lol. I know I've also heard about how it's just as hard or even harder on the caregivers but I don't quite believe this either. Not many caregivers would really want to trade place with the dying cancer patient. They may get shell shocked from the afterblasts but it's the patients going through the full blown war. Why do we do this, to keep our loves and our families together and to live..I think it would break a lot of their hearts to know that with all their fighting to stay in here, they could be replaced in a couple of months. I just think it's the respectable thing to do and the only thing to do when you have young children involved. My husband just lost his young secretary to brain cancer, within weeks of her burial, her husband was dating her nurse. At the funeral, I told my husbnd "i bet he's taking phone numbers"...I wasn't wrong. I know that life is for the living but there has to be a right respectable way to deal with it. I am trying hard to understand this wave of action because I know when i go, I can do nothing about it. I just want my daughter to know that her mother loved her and her family dearly and that type of love can't be replaced quickly...sherryg

[trixkit]

This might be a touchy subject, but I agree with you 100 percent.

I'm a frequent visitor and infrequent poster to this site. My wife passed away 15 months from BC and this was a subject that she forced me to talk often. I didn't want to hear any of this talk because I was convinced that she would beat the disease. She told me, in fact she insisted that I need to move on "eventually" after she's gone. She expected me to mourn, but eventually dust my self off and continue living. It wasn't until she passed did I start replaying these conversations in my head because I really wasn't listening when she was alive, I didn't want to hear it.

I guess everyone is different, but it's been 15 months for me and I'm just starting to think about dating again. I don't have kids, so they aren' t part of the equation. I know I certainly wouldn't be dating 1 or 2 months after my wifes passing, so I really can't understand that.

Just my opinion
John

[Barbara H.]

I certainly don't understand this issue, but I think its different for everybody. My grandfather dated after my grandmother passed away at 55. He lived well into his nineties, but never remarried. I know others who dated right away and remarried quickly. I don't feel that caregivers can be judged, because there are phases for grieving and shock at the loss or change in one's life. Everyone reacts to this differently. That being said, children need to comforted and feel as if they are cared for. It's hard for me to find an excuse for that.
Best regards,
Barbara H.

[Lien]

A colleague's mother was dying from pancreatic cancer, when her father started seeing their neighbour. Even though my colleague was in her late twenties, she needed to share her feelings with her Dad. He was sharing other feelings with his new lover. It was heartbreaking.

I have 4 kids and if I pass away, I want my husband to find someone. But he needs to cnsider the kids too. Even the big ones, that have moved out. If he does fall in love before they are able to handle it, he has to keep it a secret. He knows! I would spit on him from heaven (or wherever I am by then) if he acted differently.

Love

Jacqueline

[Faith in Him]

I am speaking for myself only. Sherry, I am right with you. I have an 11 year old daughter too and an 8 year old son. I have told my husband what I expect. He needs to worry about the kids first. Give everybody at least a year to heal and adjust. I have made him promise me that he will always keep my memory alive with the children should he remarry down the road. He also needs to choose very wisely as this women will be in my children's lives. I remind my children that I will always be their mother even when I am really old and I go onto heaven. I can love them from there.
I have wondered if I was the only one with these feelings. I am glad I'm not.

My poor husband would have the added responsiblity of taking care of my mother. I am an only child and she lives on our property in a mother-in-law unit. Humm...I wonder how dating other women will go over with his mother- in- law living behind him ???

[tricia keegan]

Sherry I think I see your point and agree. I have no young children to consider thankfully, and have no problem with my husband finding someone else when I'm gone.
However, I would like to think a decent interval had passed before he did this if only as a mark of respect to my memory and what we meant to each other.

However, I assume we are speaking in general and not about any one person in particular, as I do feel what one person does is their business and was simply stating how I would feel in the same circumstance.

[Mary Jo]

The way I see it.......(as the saying goes)......

"Until you have walked a mile in my shoes don't judge me."

There's a lot of "meat" in that little sentence. Of course, when children are involved, I would think it be a smart idea, as a surviving spouse, to take their needs as their first priority HOWEVER all that being said......until we have been their we really don't know what we would or wouldn't do.

We all have a right to our opinion and we can all think we know what we'd do or what we wouldn't do.....but once again "until you walk a mile in my shoes, don't judge me."

Mary Jo

[nitewind]

Sherry, all I can say to your post is.....Amen and Amen!
Thanks for making this post, I've seen some things and I thought it was just me that felt devestated for the deceased spouse. Glad I'm not alone. Again, thank you.

[Faith in Him]

Just another thought -

I think the women with young children are extra sensitive to this issue. We are already hurt by the possiblity of not being able to raise our children to adulthood. It is a very real and worrisome problem for us. It is such a huge issue that I sometimes wonder why it isn't discussed more often.

I need to add that, if I were older and my children were settled in their own families, I would feel alot better about this. Again, I'm just talking about me. I know everyone needs to find their own way.

Tonya

[Chelee]

This is a very sensitive subject but one I must say I totally agree with Sherry on. Since I was dx almost 4 yrs ago this is something that has bothered me many times. I know life is for the living but when I see someone bury their spouse/significant other that they loved so completely and within a months time they have already moved on with someone new. It makes me think that in "some" (not all) cases that person already had someone on the side just waiting for the day their spouse passed away. In fact I know of one instance that this poor woman that had battled bc and ovarian cancer for 8 yrs had a bad feeling her husband of 30 plus yrs was cheating on her. Low and behold she was right. The husband had been having an affair with the nurse that was SUPPOSE to be caring for his wife. When the husband & nurse was confronted...they both apologized to the wife but said "We are sorry...but we thought you were going to die". (Gee...thanks alot!!!) I really don't believe that is such an isolated case either. I bet it happens more times then not. JMHO

I really do believe in "time" people need to move on...and if that involves finding someone new that's wonderful. But I have just seen so much the last 4 yrs how much someone deeply loves their significant other & they don't know how they will go on without them when they are gone. But in a couple weeks to a months time they already have someone...how is the possible? Long before I was dx with bc my brother had a friend who's wife had been battling cancer for years. My brother use to joke that his friend Dave was always talking to ALL the ladies. (I'd say he's married....shame on him.) My brother said since his wife is going to die he is just keeping all his options open. Then he'd laugh. I don't find that funny at all. This is a very sore subject to me...it has always bothered me. I would want my husband to move on and find someone to be happy with...but I would be rolling over in my grave if he came to the funeral with his NEW gal pal. I want him to be happy but he could at least wait till my body is cold.

Sherry we think alike because the caregiver comment is another one I totally agree with you about. I've been "both". I've been the bc patient fighting this darned disease...and I've been a caregiver TWICE in my life for two very serious illnesses. My sister with liver disease which passed away. Then a caregiver for my mother with advanced lung cancer which passed away. They both new they were on borrowed time...so was it harder on me or them. Sorry...but I say THEM. Was it easy on me...not even...that was one of the hardest things I did...but they were actually facing their death and they both knew it. As a caregiver as hard as it was for me I knew I was still going to be here...so why we continue to hear it's harder on the caregiver then the patients I do not understand? I've done both and would rather no one have to experience either of these situations. Life is for the living...move on and be happy...I'm all for it. I think what bothers me the most is many times it looks like that person left behind was looking for someone new long before their spouse even passed away? (Even if it's not true...sure makes me wonder at times.)

Chelee

[Jackie07]

The Chinese used to (from about 12 Century till early 20th Century) encourage widows to stay 'single' by rewarding them with a huge 'Chastity' Gate at the entrance of the city or town. Many movies have been made on the subject. One of the few 'accomplishments' of the Chinese communist regieme (1949-)is to ban unreasonable traditions such as this (along with the ban on opium and women's foot-binding.) The 'one man, one woman' rule was established when the last Dynasty was overthrown in 1911, but the first 'Republic' could not reform everything as effectively as the harsh and 'psychological' method used by the communists. Though many men (even some who are living in the States) have a 'live-in' partner besides the official wife.

'Not being able to bear a son' is unofficially a well-recognized excuse for the husband to sleep with another woman. And if the 'woman' indeed gives him a son, she will be included in the family right away. One family of such I know of has a shop on the first floor, the 2nd wife living on the 2nd floor with her young son, and the 'big' wife and her children (now all grown and moved out)live on the 3rd floor.

It was a very unfair situation when many men (mainly the accomplished, rich ones) were practicing polygamy, yet the women were encouraged to stay 'single' the rest of their lives if their husband happened to die young.

The practice partially originated from the demand of having a son to carry the family name and continue the ancestor worship. Though there are ways to get around it such as asking the son-in-law (before the engagement or wedding) to agree to changing his family name - usually allowing their 2nd son (if none, than a daughter)to bear the father's orginal family name. One old man in our small community had told us that he loved his then girl friend so much he would have agreed to anything to marry her. "Carrying her last name was the least of my concern." He flew a fighter jet during World war II and later became a flight instructor in the ROC Air Force. All his children used his birth name as their middle name. (In Chinese tradition, there's always a 'remedy' (antidote) for everything as is described in the Kung-fu movies... :)

Before I was married to hubby, I would tell him about Chinese 'legends' such as the ones in which a deceased wife would come back from her grave if the husband was not faithful - he would be 'haunted'. Hubby simply laughed about it. Four life-threatening surgeries later, he found out it is not a laughing matter any more. There are so much stress, so much adjustment, and so many changes involved...

Maslow's hierarchy states (with good data and reasoning behind it) that a person's basic needs (as is described in the award-winning movie - 'Eat, Drink, Man, Woman'")have to be satisfied before he (she) could go on to reach the next level (and ultimately the highest level - 'self-realization'.) I think we all are very understanding about the situation, it's just hard to take it when it is 'happening' to 'us'.

[Chelee]

Maybe this is more of a sore subject for me personally because of how I was raised...and the example my Mother was. My Dad died of a massive heart attack at age 36. That left my Mother alone to raise 3 kids. (Her life was anything but easy.) Her first and only priority was to her kids. She never went out dating...or looking for someone new. Her only focus was taking care of her kids. She told me she didn't want strange men around her kids...she didn't believe in that.

That doesn't mean I agree with it. In fact as years went by I always wished she would of went out to met someone new. She should of, could of...but didn't. She said my Dad was the only one for her and she would never remarry. (and she didn't...and that makes me sad.) I think she missed out on so much...but she tells me she was happy with her choices. You must remember...she was old school. Things are so different now. My Mother was a stay at home Mom and she was always there for us kids...in fact too much. lol She got by on very little but I never wanted for anything...I thought I had it all. Her sisters & brothers all told her she should go out and meet someone as we kids got older. She just never did. As I was much older I'd see men hit on her in the grocery store and other places...but she just smiled and went on with our day. She loved my Father and when he passed away that seemed to be it for her. There is no doubt my Dad wouldn't of wanted my Mother to find someone new "in time". But she said she had 3 kids to protect and raise...and that she did. Kind of sad...but that goes back to maybe this is why this subject rubs me the wrong way. Her kids came first over everything. My Mother truly was one in a million....I was so blessed.

Chelee

[Audrey]

Interesting topic--I remember when I was going through cancer treatment and feeling very pessimistic about my future that I made my husband promise to wait "a year and a day" after my death before getting involved with another woman. I promised that in the event that he died first that I would do the same for him. I still think it is a good rule of thumb--there has to be an appropriate period of mourning before jumping into the next relationship, especially when young children are involved.

[Jackie07]

My Father-in-law lost his father during the depression era when Father-in-law was only 11. There were nine kids total in the family and he's the third from the youngest. His mother (hubby's grandmom) raised all the children (except a couple of the older ones who'd already married and left home) by herself - the whole family worked togather as share-croppers.

My Sister-in-law is the only one of the three siblings that was old enough to remember well about 'Nana' who had had a nervous breakdown during World War II when 4 of her sons were sent to the battle fields(a situation very much like what's depicted in 'Saving Private Ryan' except that all of her sons made it back home -one had died prematurely several years after the War because of a lung injury incurred in a battle. And a younger son later went to the Korean War and made it back) and seemed to have passed down some kind of 'depression' genes to her son, her grand daughter and a great-grand daughter (could it be a 'learned-behavior'? Her two brothers didn't seem to be affected that much.)

Oliver Roberts S. had remained a widow untill she passed away in her 70's.

I often hear my Father-in-law stating (especially after he'd prepared a nice meal): "This is how 'Mama' made the [Swiss steak, cabbage...etc.]..." Father-in-law does not believe in the 'depression' gene theory. He thinks anyone in the same situation would have 'lost it'.

I think there is a biological difference between men and women. Although anthropoligists did find a few small, isolated ethnic groups that were dominated by female members - so it shows the 'cultural' influence on the so-called 'human nature'.

[sarah]

Your example does seem particularly callous but I wonder if part of the problem isn't that men don't have male friends they can talk to the way women do??? and therefore need that companionship and of course looking after! I would hope my husband would fall in love again but........not right away!

[Lori R]

My dear sisters....how is it that you seem to know my deepest (darkest) thoughts and have the courage to share them openly on this site.

I have struggled internally with the thought of being gone and my husband finding someone to replace me.

Of course this imaginary woman will be prettier, funnier, more accomplished than me.

The only way that I know to push back these negative thoughts are to take control and do many of the things most of you are doing.

* Take the time to analyze your fears so you can communicate them.
*Share you fears with your spouse (sometimes mine surprises me when I actually talk to him)
*Put together items to gift to your children in case you aren't around. It will be wonderful when are are here to hand them the gifts in person....but.....Example:
During this journey I've found more pennies/ heads up than ever. I have a jar of them and will give them as a precious gift to my daughter to show that there is always hope and god sends us messages.

Quickly build memories...we make a fort every year behind the Christmas tree and read books among the twinkling lights.

And on a lighter note.....monogram everything that you can get your hands on!! (OK...maybe not everything)

Spend our energy enjoying each and every day with our husbands and families. That way it will make it tougher for Wife #2 to replace us!!!

[Lien]

Lori, your post made me think. When I met my husband, he had been divorced for two years. His ex-wife had left him for another man. Still, she wasn't pleased when he met me. So I called her and talked to her about how we were going to raise the kids, as they didn't ask to be in this situation. I know of at least one other stepmom who acted like that. If your husband would look carefully, he could find a woman who isn't threatened by your memory, who will keep your memory alive.

When I first met my husband and we started dating, he said to me: You have to know one thing: my children will always come first and their mother is the best mom in the world. If you can deal with that, I would love to explore what we have together. If not, I think it should end here.
I agreed with him. In fact, I admired him for being so straightforward. We now have 4 sons, 2 from his first marriage, and two we had together. The eldest two are as much part of the fabric of our family as are the other two.

So if husbands would start a new relationship like that, I think it could work out. I just hope mine would do it like that again.

Jacqueline

[Rich66]

"I wonder if part of the problem isn't that men don't have male friends they can talk to the way women do??? and therefore need that companionship and of course looking after!"

Hmmm. That's interesting. Despite astute observations that there are biological differences between men and women(Yes, I get it ;), I wonder if the real issue is the fact that couples can become a world unto themselves and when that world comes apart, and there's no other strong support stepping up, there is a desire to recreate that. Ok..pretty basic assumption as well. Let me explain. Being single, I notice many friends don't have time for friends once they get married. I totally understand it, especially when children are born. But I wonder if folks with really strong friend networks begin dating as early as those that don't. I know at least one occassion where I lost a close friend and soon thereafter found myself pursuing a realtionship that really wasn't right but I was filling in blanks myself trying to make it seem right. Because it really felt like a little sun pouring in during a dark time. After I started leaning on my family and friends, I could eventually see what was going on. Eh..it's a "hypothesis generating" question. Now I shut my pie hole.

[Louise O'Brien]

Sherry... thanks for bringing up a topic that many of us think about - but never talk about, let alone acknowledge.

I remember a few years ago (before I was diagnosed) being outraged after hearing about the husband of a neighbour who died of bc. She was a truly wonderful woman and he appeared to be a very supportive husband. Within six months, he met another woman - an extremely wealthy woman - and after marrying her, he declared that he had "never been happier" in his life. Perhaps the French chateau and the new life style had something to do with it.

I remember my friend and I both going beserck one night which really amused our husbands. We felt so strongly that this was such a slap in the face to his late wife to hear this man go on and on about his wonderful new life. We still go on a rant about it when it comes up and we've warned our husbands we will haunt them to eternity if they ever pull something like that. Which only makes them laugh more .

So yes - of course one wants their spouse to wait a respectful time. And none of us wants to judge because who knows really what anyone's life is really like?

But this seemed to be beyond the pale and all I could think of is that this sweet woman whose life ended far too soon never deserved to be married to a jerk like that.

Sorry for sounding off -you just hit a raw chord with me - and it's a worthwhile discussion.

[freyja]

I'm with MaryJo...again. You really can't judge what's best for someone else. Of course when it's your own kids you're concerned about, ok you should definitely have the first voice in that matter, but you never know how others really feel and if it's what's best for them or not.

[Sherryg683]

My friend Susan died at age 40 and left behind 2 teenage boys. Her husband started dating within months of her death. Her children were put on the backburner. One of them said to me.."i've not only lost my mother, I feel like I've lost my father too". To me this is unthinkable that he was not there for them when they needed him most. One of them got into drugs seriously while he was making himself feel better. Can I "judge" his action...I can sure have my opinion, if you call that judging. I would hope that if I died, my husband would consider what's "best" not only for HIMSELF but for the people that we love, our family and our familys feelings, even friends of the loved one. It's not always about what's best just for "us". If the world were ran like that, we'd all be in trouble. When someone dies, it is not just the spouse that suffers. I think of my husbands secretaries parents when they received the call from their "son-in law" a little more than a month after she died telling them that he was dating someone. They were so hurt and devistated . I'm sorry, this is just plain disrespectful. Personally, I cannot see how jumping into another relationship right after your spouse has died could possibly be best for anyone. I can understand being lonely, hurt and devistated and usually good decisions are not made when feeling like this. I also question the intentions and character of someone who would get involved with someone who's spouse had just died. I think that's why there should be some space, a grieving period, so that everyone involved can heal and be helped. Then of course move on with your life. Susans husband told everyone that he had been "grieving" for Susan for a year (the time she was sick). That was why he was so ready to jump out and move on with another woman. Everyone thought it was a bunch of bull and suspected him of seeing this woman while Susan was sick. Her children, family and friends suffered dearly from his actions, which were just plain out wrong and selfish. I still have to believe there is a right way and wrong way of doing things.
sherryg

[Mary Jo]

Yes Sherry you can surely have your opinion as you have and so have I.

Of course, children should not be put on the back burner and of course they should be the priority. That's a no brainer. However, and very unfortunately, that is not always the case. However, there are also those who do not have young children or have no children. I know people in both catagories. They started dating fairly quickly after their spouse had passed. Knowing these individuals very well, and knowing the love they had for their spouse, it would be very wrong of myself or others to judge them on the basis of what we see as wrong or right.

Again I repeat, "until any of us have walked a mile in someone elses shoes, who are we to judge." (paraphrased by me)

The world is a hard place....and people go through some tough things......I think we need to be more understanding and forgiving of others. This is a cancer support board, for goodness sake, lets quit all the bashing and name calling and support one another.

Peace and love to each of you....

Mary Jo

[nitewind]

I think that because this is a cancer support board that's why it bothers most of us so much. We can easily put ourselves in the place of the love one who lost the battle. No one wants to think that they can be so easily replaced especially by one who declared such love and total devotion to us. We are all human, we know what we may face. The disease in itself is horrible and then your mind starts to wander about how soon you'll be set aside as if you really didn't matter that much anyway.

Maryjo, I understand what you are saying, my friend. But we, as the patients, are hurt to easily when we hear of a replacement so soon. Then we dwell on our own situations. It can become very depressing.
I'm so glad that we can discuss this subject together.
I love you all

[Sherryg683]

Susan, my thoughts exactly. It is very depressing to a lot of us that are fighting for our lives to hear of spouses moving on so quickly. And with this being a support group, I think there should be a little more sensitivity placed on the feelings of those of us that it would and does upset. What I'm saying is before announcing to the whole board that you have moved on, found a new love and are happier than ever within months of your spouses passing, please consider it may hurt quite a few people here. It has been done more than once and has upset more than just myself. Not everyone is quite so excited and joyful when then happens. I went out on the limb when I posted this, fully knowing not everyone would be happy I did. But I think it had to be said...now I am done...sherry

[Faith in Him]

I agree, Nitewind, we are easily hurt. It is the extra baggage that comes with cancer.

I can't help but be hurt. I dreamed of my children before they were even born. I live everyday for them. The thought of someone else being there for their high school graduation, their wedding day and holding my grandchild for the first time, is beyond devastating to me. I want to be there. But I know that if this is not possible then in time my husband should remarry. Does it hurt any less? No. I am willing to be reasonable about this. I can even find good reasons why my husband should remarry. But it is still very, very painful to think about.

I think these feelings are huge for a lot of us and should be discussed on a cancer support board. It is the cancer that has me reflecting on these issues.

Tonya

[Ceesun]

Sherry and Friends, Let me just say that I have pondered this as well. I credit you with bringing up this topic as it engenders so many feelings. I have seen colleagues do the same things and yes, it bothers me...a lot. I think we all have the right to express our thoughts--that can be helpful in and of itself. Being honest and expressing true feelings is never wrong--especially in this protective environment of the board. That is just my humble opinion. Ceesun

[Mary Jo]

Tonya, your feelings are so right on and so normal. Of course, we all would feel awful (and do) over the thought of someone else loving our husbands, or wives, or raising our children. I totally get that and totally understand that. I would feel no different.....the only thing I want to make clear is that for those who do move on and find "love" again that is their right....It isn't up to us to judge how long someone should mourn their lost spouse....it isn't up to us to decide how long is long enough......or to ask them to think before they announce here that they have found love.

As I continue to say......."until we have walked a mile in their shoes, who are we to judge."

That statement has nothing at all to do with people feeling sad at the prospect of being "gone" and someone else raising their children or loving their spouse. Absolutely nothing....but for those who come to this board or into our lives and "announce that they have moved on and found love again" - I am happy for them and feel they have the same right. It isn't my place to decide if they waited long enough.

I'm not usually one to do battle here at her2support but in this instance feel I am standing up for a dear friend among us and feel the need to stand up for that individual. This topic must really hurt that individual and that makes me sad. Very sad.

[nitewind]

None of us want to do battle here on the board, there is no need to. A lot of us feel sad about this subject and I don't think that anyone is judging someone else. When we are going thru this terrible disease, our feeling are right there on the edge and it's hard to think about a lot of things. I feel that this board is to help a cancer victim fight and face whatever comes their way and try to build them up and to support them.
The subject wasn't about our spouses ever finding love again, just like the rest of you, I would want my husband to go on with his life too. But if he did that in a very short period of time, my family would feel like they were slapped in the face and they, too, would be very hurt.
I'm not judging. When you've been close to a situation for a long period and something like this happens, well, I don't know about you guys but it made me sit down and cry. If crying and being hurt means I'm judging, then so be it. But, again, I don't think I am.

[alicem]

I agree with you Mary Jo. I have felt at odds with some of what is being said here because I wonder if there is something wrong with me. I personally do not have a problem with my husband moving on and finding someone else to love - even IF it were to be one week later!! You just can't "plan" when that is going to happen. I didn't follow a "plan" when I met him, it just happened. My view on this is tempered by the fact that it is my 100% desire for him to be happy his whole life. If moving on and falling in love with someone else will accomplish that, I am OK with that. Maybe it is easier for me to say that because our 3 children are grown and on their own. Yet, if they were still young, I would trust that he would marry someone wonderful who would take care of them for me. He would need help. Life is hard enough as it is. I choose to look at it from the perspective that he would not be replacing me, he has already told me that there is no one on the face of this earth that could do that. He would just be starting a new and different chapter of his life - not rewriting the book.

When my mother died in 1999, I saw how sad, hurt & depressed my father was. He lived 10 years without her and was never the same. Somehow the joy was taken out of his life. I would never wish that for my husband, and I don't think anyone of you who have posted would either. I think part of the discussions here is all about timing. But I wonder, what if the perfect person to take away the pain from my loved one came into their life - but it happened to be just 1 month after my passing. Just because it was "too soon" would that make it wrong; would it be better to live a life unhappy? Is 1 month + 1 day too soon? What about 2 months? 6 months? 3.545 years?

What Mary Jo is saying, and I am agreeing with - it is up to each individual to decide what matters to them & discuss their feelings with their own loved ones. Openly communicate what matters to YOU. Please remember that everyone's opinion here is VALID because everyone's circumstances and feelings are different, but no one can be wrong when it comes to situations like this!!!

[Yorkiegirl]

Mary Jo wrote>>>.....the only thing I want to make clear is that for those who do move on and find "love" again that is their right....It isn't up to us to judge how long someone should mourn their lost spouse....it isn't up to us to decide how long is long enough......or to ask them to think before they announce here that they have found love.

As I continue to say......."until we have walked a mile in their shoes, who are we to judge." <<<

Mary Jo I totally agree with this statement. I sat on my fingers BUT I just had to to say I agree with what you said.

[Lien]

I think that if there are no kids involved, the spouse who lost his or her partner has to decide for him/herself how long they need to mourn. Maybe they make a mistake, maybe they get it right. But it's nothing to do with us.

If there are kids, we should have a say in the matter. And it would depend on the children and their needs.

Just my 0,02

Jacqueline

[Mary Jo]

I would like to thank Sherry for starting this post. Yes, it was controversial, but hey, we can take it. Controversary abounds here at her2support often times....and it's all good! Even when we don't agree...feelings are shared....hashed out......and on we go!

This post moved me more so because some of my friends here at her2support, are among those who have found love and moved on. Also, there are others in my life here, who have done the same. One of the things a friend, just recently expressed to my husband and I is "I think I found love again but I am so afraid of what others may think." This person is a wonderful man who lost his wife at age 48. He loved her. She loved him. Sadly, she is gone....He isn't. The last thing he needs, (or anyone else in that same situation) is others deciding for him when the right time is.

Thanks Sherry for sharing your heart and being honest. You were heard and understood by many. Many have the same fears about this as you do and thankfully you can share those feelings with one another. That is a good thing.

Love and peace among us all...

Mary Jo

[Jackie07]

Since there are very few 'men' on the Board, and even fewer have participated in the discussion, I decided to ask my husband about his opinion. And here's what he said over the phone (at my Father-in-law's house):

Remember what the Old Man replied to Kuai-cheng King in the movie 'Kung Fu'? When the young apprentice showed his 'impatience' about 'time' and complained about his having been there for a long time, the Old Master asked him, "How long?". Then young 'King' caught himself and replied, "Not very long."

Another quote we love to use in our conversation is the one from the movie 'IQ' when Einstein, his niece and her future husband (both were also accomplished scientists) discussed the 'relativity' of time. Time 'froze' when people were falling in love, time is 'relative'...

About the concern of children, hubbie's comment is that 'making yourself happy and staying happy will set an example for the children to know that it is 'OK' to be happy.

[Faith in Him]

I wrote a response but have since decided it was time for me to let this one go.


Love to all of you.

Tonya

[MJo]

This is an interesting topic. I don't have a husband or children, but the pain of someone behaving badly can affect family members for generations. I like to think that all my married sisters have husbands who, if the worst happens, will act wisely and put their children's needs at least on par with their own. But there are some real horndogs out there.

In my family's case, breast cancer skipped a generation. I am the first of my generation to get it. But five of my great aunts -- all in my mother's family -- died of breast cancer . I remember one of the cases because my great aunt was around my mother's age. She was the youngest of 11! Her husband moved in with his girlfriend while my aunt was dying of metastatic breast cancer in the early 1960s. He would stop by to see my aunt occasionally, sometimes leaving his girlfriend outside waiting in the car. Her children were preteens and teenagers and they didn't have much to do with him when they grew up.

I mention this because the topic came up here. Though I was a kid when these things happened, I remember the talk and the pain and bitterness and anger my mother and her family members felt. I think it is important for husbands and wives to discuss these things. Easier said than done. But as a survivor, I feel so sad when I think of my aunt and I still make donations in her honor.

[Jackie07]

Somebody ought to write a book on this topic as a sequel to "Men are from Mars, Women are from Venus."

In the 'very' ancient Chinese history, the Emperor's wife and concubines were supposed to 'go to his grave' (literally, as the emperor's grave was huge) to accompany him when the Emperor was burried. Later, it evolved into a ritual of putting life-sized fugres into the grave. (Like the famous 'Tara Cotta' Soldiers unearthed in China.) Currently it's still a common practice in Southeast Asia for people to burn paper house, paper car, paper (underworld) money for their loved one to 'use' in 'the other world down below'.

Confucius had lamented even at the practice of using the tara cotta 'substitutes': "The ones that had started the practice of making those 'figures', are they not going to have children and grand children?" Some suspect if the so-called 'figures' were actually living persons being 'made' into statues ... Many have debated if Confucius was merely 'lamenting' or was saying "May they have no descendents..." (Ancient text can be interpreted in several different ways as usually it uses very few 'words' for expression.)

Seems the play 'Romeo and Juliet' exposes this kind of 'passion' between lovers. It was a 'tragedy' of tragedies in the name of love... Though it seemed to be a very beautiful concept... I do remember the feelings I have toward the story (there's a popular Chinese movie that was dubbed the 'Chinese Romeo and Juliet' when I was a young child...) Later I reflected on my feelings when I studied 'Romeo and Juliet' in college. I was confronted with it again when I was 30, 41, 43, 47... Each time I would make a little bit revision. But I have always encouraged my husband to go date other women... [during my semi-comatose, I had urged him to "date that nurse..." and had written in the notebook "donononon't be sad." I was so worried about him... (We had found out about my life-long brain tumor on the exact day of our 2nd Anniversay.)

'Children' are the main concern here. The best thing we can do is to prepare them as much as we can beforehand. And then trust them, trust our loved ones, and trust God.

[Disclaimer - As my Mother always says: "Before you have your own kids, you won't understand..." - exactly the same as the 'walking in the shoe...' expression.]

[Ruth]

This was hard to me to read especially with the coincidence of our beloved Marie post just this past couple weeks. I am mixed on my feelings as many of all of us seem to be. These past 6 1/2 years I have noticed all of these things happen after death of a spouse or loved one...fast dating times, marriages in months and then the other end of never marrying or even much of dating after many, many years after a beloved has passed away. It happens not only from cancer, it happens with auto accidents, heart attacks and many other forms of death. It is so hard if not impossible to put yourself in someone else's shoes. Walking their walk.
I have very small children and a darling husband they help fill up so much of my time. I get an incredible amount of love and support from them. My dad passed away very unexpectedly and even with all the love and support I had around me I couldn't make a rational decision for at least a year. I looked like Ruth, I talked like Ruth but Ruth wasn't inside for a while. My heart was totally broken. I truly believe that you can't make any kind of serious commitment or decision until healing takes place. For some people healing takes place in a year, some in years and some never. Part of who you are dies along with the person that you loved so desperately that died so in some essence you are not the same ~ or not at least who you really are. Time is needed. And by goodness kids need lots of time!

I want everyone to have love in their lives, feel happiness but I feel its not good for them to make any major decisions or commitments right after a major emotional place of time. I understand the joy of actually feeling good after feeling terrible for a long time. It can be like a drug - but it can also cover up grief or push grief down. Many people deal with tragety in different ways. It's hard to understand sometimes but hopefully in time they will heal and be in a good place. That good place hopefully will be with their whole family at their side.
I think I'm starting to ramble and need to go to bed! HA - its 12 and I have to get up with the munckins at 6!
I love all of you and I want everyone to be happy.

[Unregistered]

I know these are hurtful things to think about, feel, discuss, etc. I agree that it is not helpful to judge, since judgements are usually just a projection of our own fears and insecurities. More helpful is to recognize what YOUR feelings are about it in relation to your own relationships and situations, and deal with YOUR feelings about YOUR situations as they come up. It seems to really be about fear, fear of our or our memory or our children being "abandoned." These are definitely painful thoughts. But it may be more helpful to give up the illusion that we'll have any control over what happens to our family once we've crossed over. We can lay groundwork, but ultimately we likely will have no control, and that is our fear, that is what we need to face and work on.
Peace and Blessings to all
Liz

[Unregistered]

I totally agree that grief is something we have to navigate through. Finding love so very quickly may sound great and make one feel a sense of relief, but it is only a small bandage over a gushing wound of grief. Sooner or later, the bandage will fall off through the weight of harbored grief. I wish you all well but feel Sherry has a point and we all have our own baggage to carry.
Uma

[Lien]

I think that sometimes we do a lot of grieving while our loved one is sick, so we are ready sooner than others would be. Also, perhaps the new love postpones the grieving, but who is to say if that's a bad thing? We all do it our own way and something that fits me, could be totally wrong for someone else. Perhaps, if we postpone the grieving, it will engulf us when we least expect it to. But if our new relationship is good and our new lover can handle the grief, it could well be a blessing. Live and let live...

Jacqueline