Echocardiogram question

[DianneS]

Hi ladies,

Ok...I did the Herceptin until Sept. '09. My echocardiograms have been staying at 71 since I began having them done last year. I had one in July that read 71 and then one done last week. It was 65.

I am wondering if echo changes are normal and why mine would drop 6 points. The doc said this is in the normal range and not to worry but of course I wonder why it would go down since I'm not on Herceptin and have not been since Sept. The only thing I did was begin on Tamoxifen Nov. 6, and I wonder if it could have affected the echo since I didn't feel great while taking it. I have since quit.

Any opinions? Thanks,
Dianne

[tricia keegan]

I'm not sure Dianne, but maybe the herceptin was affecting it and it has'nt corrected itself yet?
My echo's went down to 58 by the time I finished herceptin.

[Midwest Alice]

Hey Dianne,

I was so proud my MUGA score went up 9 points!! Yea!! My MDA Dr. said that they can swing up and down and not to be to excited about it. I had worked so hard to get my score up and was disapointed with his answer. So I decited to be excited about it any way!

So ........maybe they swing up and down and not to worry.

[DianneS]

Hi Alice,

That's good it went up! I'm happy for you, and keep doing whatever you are doing to keep it going up. Are you exercising, or what?

A MUGA is different from an echocardiogram. One (MUGA) involves dyes and the echo does not. Just so ya know.....I am told an echo is better but I can't remember why the doc told me that. Both tests are good for finding out what the old pumper is up to.

Stay well,
Dianne

[DianneS]

Hi Tricia,

Top of the morning to you there in Eire! I believe it's a 9 hour difference? Or you're just up late :)

It's possible my score went down after my last Herceptin but strange that it was at a steady 71 the whole time I was taking Herceptin.

Did your score go back up? How long did it take? Did you notice anything different when it dropped a bit, such as energy levels, etc?

BTW I am Irish as well, have an Irish passport and would dearly love to visit Ireland again. My granddad was from Tipperary area. How is your weather there? We are having tons of rain and lots of wind here in western Canada but no snow yet.

Dianne

[Midwest Alice]

Exercising yes ........... and.. lost 30+ lbs, gave up sugar, flour and processed foods, and take coQ-10.

[Laurel]

Dianne,

Your ejection fraction can change by 5 pts depending on the technician doing the echo. Believe me, 71 is stellar, and a 65 is also quite impressive! You can put one worry to bed tonight.

[Jackie07]

Laurel's right. Sleep tight! :)

[MUGA is much, much more expensive than Echo. 'I think' as long as your Echo is within range, the doctor won't bother prescribing MUGA.]

[DianneS]

ok, guys.....I will try and not worry too much about it.

I guess I should be more concerned that I can't take anything for my weak ER+. That's such a small group of women that I guess nothing much has been studied to see if we benefit, or not. Dang.

Dianne

[SoCalGal]

Hi Diane
The LVEF can vary and anything over 50% is normal. My last test was 74%. The one before was 65%. I don't think there are symptoms until you are very low. Walking seemed to help mine increase or it was a cooincidence:)

[Sheila]

Just as an FYI, if you have had reconstruction with an implant on the left as i have, it is very hard to get an accurate reading through an echo and ususally you will need a Muga scan....the implant blocks getting accurate results.

[Laurel]

Dianne,

Unlike Sheila I have not had any difficulty with my echos and my implants (silicone), however that may be dependent on our body types, positioning of the implant, etc. I prefer the echos as they do not involve any radiation and are very quick. Much is based upon the experience and skill of the technicians, and additionally on the skill and expertise of the M.D. interpreting the echo. I am really quite envious of that 71!

Did you have time to google around about Dim and Calcium D-glucarate?

[Joan M]

Dianne,

A MUGA scan is usually considered the most accurate test of the left ventricle ejection fraction, which Herceptin affects. A low LVEF is a sign of possible congestive heart failure.

However, an echo can take the place of the MUGA. The MUGA is a nuclear test involving a shot in the vein of a radioactive isotope. In my case, and since I get other scans with contrast, I decided to switch to an echo last year, as there's no contrast medium.

As pointed out, the normal range of the LVEF is 50%-70%. A MUGA gives an exact percent. However, an echo is often reported in a range, because sometimes it's hard to get an exact number.

Unless you're having problems, the echo is fine.

Also, the protocol for Herceptin calls for discontinuing the drug if the LVEF score drops more than 10% between scans, even if the percentage is still within the normal limits.

Joan

[PinkGirl]

Hi Dianne
I had Muga's and while on Herceptin my number ranged between 58 and 62.
I had another one done 3 months after finishing Herceptin and it was up to
71.

I think your numbers are geat! Nothing to worry about there.

I was told that Muga's are more accurate but invasive. I guess it's just
what they preferred to do at the Cancer Centre I went to.