sicko by MM

[harrie]

Did anyone see Sicko, a documentary by Michael Moore? It is about health insurance. I thought it was very interesting. Any comments?

[RhondaH]

I TOO saw it and I think there is a lot of truth to it (PART of my belief comes from the fact that I USED to work for Travelers Insurance in their "Specialty claims" department...I.E. we paid/denied STRICTLY long term nursing care, chiropractic and podiatry claims and there was a registered RN I worked with to "save" the company money...deny claims...I worked there from 1987 to 1990, so nothing recent when I got a "conscience"). Take care and God bless.

Rhonda

[CPA]

If you really think that the "free" healthcare in Cuba, that he claims is so wonderful, is better than what you get here in the U.S. then I have some prime Miami condominiums that you might be interested in buying...

Our system is not perfect, but I have seen enough & even read enough on these boards to know that no other system is perfect either.

My general impression of MM is that he is an opportunistic leach who cares less about the truth than in making money for himself and embarrassing those who do not hold his same narrow minded views.

[cafe1084]

I saw sicko a few months back and it was eye-opening to say the least. It made me want to move to another country to live, but there are always downsides to anything that seems to be better....you know what they say about the grass being greener on the other side. I work with a nurse who worked for an HMO for years before his career change. That's basically why he changed careers. He said he found it difficult to sleep at night knowing he may have held partial responsibility in the deaths of people who were being denied needed treatments and services, just to save on the bottom line. I wish our system worked better for us, but it's the only system we have at this time. I have good, not exceptional insurance, but I cannot imagine what could've happened to me during this whole cancer fight without it. Just 5 short years ago, I had no health insurance. I didn't think I needed it, so I never opted for it at work. I make too much money to qualify for medicaid, unless I lose everything I've worked so hard for, yet the insurance premiums are breaking the bank. I don't have an answer and it stinks that we are forced to play the cards we are dealt until someone overhauls the system to work for the people who are making them rich and greedy

[Karen W]

I lived in Australia for a while and didn't really like the health care system there (I loved the county and the people though). I know that our system isn't perfect but I do not want National Health Care here.

Karen

[doh2pa]

I saw Sicko just last week. My husband and I are both in the health care field and realize this system is not perfect. But Mr Moore's view was very one sided. If you talk to people in Canada and Great Britain they do not have the same high opinion of the quality of the care they receive there. Some of what he says is certainly true, and we could use some improvement, but don't believe that the grass is necessarily greener.

[harrie]

Interesting comments....thank you.
Maryanne

[kcherub]

Hi, Harrie (MA)!

I saw SICKO a few months ago, and I found it thought-provoking and very interesting. I have always believed that our health care system could use improvement, but what this is--who knows?!? Just as there are those who love their countries universal health care system, there are those that do not. It is the same way here, but...

I am lucky that I have great insurance, and that I haven't had any "real" problems getting the treatment I wanted/needed (so far). I found myself getting really angry when hearing the stories of those who did not. The wife who requested a bone marrow transplant (wasn't it that?) for her husband just burned my butt. How long does something have to be around for an insurance company to not be able to label it "experimental"? Ugh. The medication issue and costs? OMG--how is that possible?

I know a lot of people look at MM as a political thing (demo. vs. repub.), but I look at him as just another entertainer with a bit of investigational journalism thrown in. Yes, he is over the top, but I don't see myself making any major lifestyle changes due to his films. It is just like everything else--no one is going to agree with everyone else's opinions all of the time.

Great topic--gives us something else to chat about. :)

Much love,

[Vanessa]

I have a friend from Canada and he told me the Canadians would revolt if their healthcare system was taken away.

[PinkGirl]

Yes Vanessa, your friend is correct.
We would revolt.

[caya]

Yes Vanessa - I'm with Pink, we would revolt.

This topic has been discussed before, and as a Canadian who has lived here all my life, I will restate my opinion on the Canadian Health Care System - it is not perfect, I am the first to admit that. However, it does provide equal access to all citizens, from everyday checkups at your GP, to getting second opinions with any doctor YOU choose, not just who is in your "network",to covering Herceptin treatments for us Her2neu+ BC patients. No fights with insurance companies, no co-pays etc. No insurance company has ever dictated to me what tests/scans I get - my oncologist, breast surgeon and I make those decisions.

Yes, we pay high taxes - but I feel it is well worth it. The stress of dealing with my DH's brain aneurysm and my BC dx within 9 months of each other was devastating enough, I cannot imagine having to worry about paying for treatment, or not seeing the drs. we personally wanted to. We got topnotch treatment in a timely manner at world class hospitals. We also never have to worry that if you lose your job, you lose your health care insurance - another stressful situation.

Yes, you will hear about how some surgeries are delayed etc. up here in Canada due to long waiting lists - but these are the few exceptions to the rule. We can't have everything - immediate surgeries, world class doctors/equipment etc. and equal access for all without something giving in occasionally. And most people realize that and this is being looked at by our government. But I'd rather have it this way - I did not have to fill out one form or answer to anybody during my entire course of treatment.

After my husband's brain surgery, he spent 6 nights in a neuro ICU, and when he came home a nurse/social worker was sent in every week to monitor his progress and did cognitive testing with him. After my mastectomy a nurse came every day to change my dressing for about 3 weeks and help me with my drains. This was all covered by the health care system. I had meetings with nutritionists, psychologists, social workers etc. - all covered.

I can only speak of my own experiences, again I fully acknowledge it is not a perfect system, but I think most Canadians are happy with the care they get.

all the best
caya

[mke]

Well yes I'm happy in Canada and my care and that of my family has always been exemplary. There are waiting lists for elective procedures like joint replacements and cataract surgery. ER waiting times can be awful, except for those who really need to be in the ER. In remote areas access to medical care is difficult. The lobbyists for the status quo in the US are going to stress those facts.

No system is perfect, I know that with endless funds I could get faster care in the US. I am not sure I would get better care.

In the late 80's I was a second level manager in a community hospital with around 400 beds, the usual mixture of chronic, medical, surgical, about 20 mental health beds, lots of maternity traffic. There was purchasing dept with around 3 or 4 people. There were about 5 secretaries in total, one of whom did billing part time.
One night I watched a documentary about a hospital in Oregon, same size more or less, same mix more or less. There was a whole separate building full of people who did nothing but billing.

And that is exactly why US citizens pay 60% more for worse outcomes, why by any accepted measure of public health they are way down on the list. You aren't paying your health care providers - you pay your insurers.

[harrie]

Would you happen to know if your insurance would cover the Oncotype Dx or pay significanlty for post-mastectomy reconstruction? I was extremely disappointed with my private ins co in HI. Medicare would have done better and I have a private dual PPO. I have written my appeals.
Harrie

[CPA]

http://her2support.org/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=32433

BBC report posted by Lani. I think it applies to this discussion.

[caya]

Harrie,

I can only speak for the Ontario system, but I know that post-mastectomy reconstruction surgery is fully covered. I'm not sure about the Oncotype DX test - that one may not be covered.

all the best
caya

[mke]

Reconstruction would be covered in Ontario. I have been clear from the onset that I have no interest in it. I don't know about the oncotype.

[sarah]

I live in France and I LOVE the universal health care here and the French would have a revolution if it was taken away. It's also extremely high quality. I'm so glad I'm here.
First time around I was in the US; the recurrence happened in France. I'll take France over the so called "great health insurance" I had in the US. Also the US government pays twice as much per person as countries with universal pay, so who's really paying??? the taxpayer and then there are so many without any insurance. Is that fair? I can chose my doctors. I discuss my treatment with my doctors. In a USA PPO or HMO, you can't chose any doctor, only from a list.
My father was a doctor and he was for universal health care. He worked 3 mornings a week free in a clinic because he believed everyone should get good medical care and that good medical care for everyone was safer because that way no potentially dangerous infection - such as untreatable tuberculosis could get out of hand. He'd been alive (a child) when the influenza epidemic killed millions.
sarah

[hutchibk]

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2005/03/20/health/main681801.shtml?cmp=EM8705

[caya]

Brenda,

With all due repect,that article you posted is nearly 3 years old. If you search through the internet you will find articles like this, as Mke said, the lobbyists in the US against universal health care will stress things like this. As I said previously, I fully admit that the Canadian universal health care system is not perfect. And BTW, in this article you cited, the WHO in 2000 ranked Canada 30th in health care, and the US 37th, not exactly positions either country should be proud of.

Unfortunately I am not as tech savvy as you, so I cannot bring up a link directly, but just a few months ago it was front page news across all the Canadian papers - a woman from Seattle (I think) was advertising for a Canadian husband because she had no health insurance and could not get it in the States - She knew if she married a Canadian, she would be covered.

I personally know of a Her2 BC patient in Wisconsin whose oncologist has been trying to get her a PET scan for weeks - fighting with her insurance company. Another woman I know in California - her husband has just been diagnosed with prostrate cancer and their insurance will not cover the latest robotic surgery. Many Americans think "the government" will dictate what their care will be, if they have universal health care. Well, to me, it seems like in the States, the insurance companies have the final word - if you have coverage at all. And you have to stay within your HMO or Network- here I can go to any doctor/hospital I want to. Yes, I need a referral to see a specialist from my GP, but that is just a formality.

And if universal health care is the big bad beast, why are both Hilary Clinton and Barak Obama making this such a big election issue in their campaigns? (Sorry I don't know much about the Republican candidates). Ask the 47 million Americans who do not have any insurance what they would prefer. Ask people who are stuck in jobs they hate, but are afraid to leave because they would lose their health insurance.

You can bring up articles showing the "failures" of the Canadian system all you want - but I can tell you that, while not perfect, and I stress that, most Canadians are very happy with our system. We have very good care, in general, for EVERYONE. No one is losing their house to pay for medical treatments in Canada.

No one has to fill out endless forms to fight with insurance companies about treatment options - this would be so stressful after a serious diagnosis, like my family had - January 2006 my DH was diagnosed with a brain aneurysm - which by the way had been misdiagnosed by a Boca Raton hospital team 3 weeks beforehand when he was rushed to the hospital while we were on vacation - then in Oct. 2006 my BC dx. I nearly had a nervous breakdown between these 2 very serious events occuring within months of each other - I cannot even begin to fathom the stress and pressure of having to justify treatment with an insurance company. And we got immediate treatment with top notch specialists at the hospitals we chose. Scans, tests etc. were scheduled by our doctors, we did not have to wait for "approval" from an insurance company.

all the best
caya (a content Canadian)

[Patty F]

Caya
I agree with you. The insurance companies run the medical profession. After I was dignosed bt Dr. wanted me to have a breast MRI. The insurance company denied it. I just had surgery on Wednesday and my surgeon said he wanted another ct scan. I don't know if my insurance co will approve another one since the last one was only 3 months ago.

[tricia keegan]

I love our universal health system...during chemo/rads.surgery I only had to concentrate on ME!!
Everything was covered, and I still had a hard time ..I shudder to think what some people go through that don't have this, I literally only had to to worry about the stress and side effects of tx rather than the cost.
I've also been paid approx one half or more of my salary to stay home since dx in '05! Even the arimidex is free!
In saying this someone is paying for me now, but I paid for them while working for years..

[sarah]

I think it's tragic that the USA doesn't have universal health care and it is also dangerous in case of infectious diseases running rampant. The health insurance business is so lucrative and rich it can spend billions fighting universal health. Universal health does NOT mean you can't choose your doctor and in the USA an insurance company can decide what is necessary and what they will pay for and which doctors you can go to. Of course the insurance companies can find all the horror stories and stress them but what about all the good stories and what about all the horror stories about health insurance in the USA. and why can't Medicare bargain for the price of drugs when foreign countries can? who prevents that? and why does the American taxpayer pay the health insurance of Congress??? Congress makes more money than the median taxpayer so should pay its own way that way they would be a little more interested in helping with this very critical issue. it would be fair, safer for the population in general and for those of you who want extra perks, you can just pay for them. sounds reasonable to me. Nothing stops me from leaving France and going to the USA, if I wanted to - I don't, and have treatment and pay for it there. It's not like you're banned. It's the old Fox news scare tactic. I can't believe anyone would be against universal health except an insurance company. I have friends in the USA, who have worked all their lives and now find they can't afford health insurance in the US and have to hang on until 66 for medicare! I hope some day that California will vote it in (too soon now) and they will prove how well it works. In California, they forced insurance companies to pay for Mammos and reconstruction surgery (some states still don't) and the insurance companies threatened to leave the state, the state said fine, leave, we'll create our own and guess what, the insurances companies blinked and they pay for it. Doesn't it make sense that diagnosing someone earlier will cost everyone (particularly the taxpayer) less than if they have to go into the emergency ward and intensive care????? I speak as a cancer patient, a doctor's daughter and someone who has been treated in the USA with supposedly great insurance and in France. So I feel I have a well rounded view and I vote for Universal Health care. It just makes sense.

[chrislmelb]

I willl be very interested to see the MM Sicko as i can never quite work out your system. It seems that if you aren't in a job with good health plan you are stuffed! Over here only some companies offer health plans for their workers. We have the option to pay for private health cover but i don't have it due to expense. If you are on a wage over $50,000 as a single person you get a penalty of some sort or if you are a couple on over $100,000. So basically those people take out health cover. I on the other hand have had my all my treatment on the 'system'. I had my surgery by a reputable surgeon in a public hospital with included having further surgery to have my implant changed over. And then i had my ovaries out too. I had all my chemo at the other public hospital and received all my medication for free. There are waits in the system but not if you need immediate treatment.
So basically if you were unemployed and living in a caravan or worse you could get treatment for your illness. It is my belief that in the US you can't??? Very interesting.