ok all you nutritional gurus....

[penelope]

I saw a family practice MD. His specialty is nutritional therapy and intergrative medicine.

Given my stats he put me on a formula that he had made for me special and I would like to know what you all think about it.

Just to put it out there as well, this doctor has been in practice many, many years. I have seen him a few times before he began this specialty.

What he made for me was the following...
reishi mushroom 500mg
milk thistle 100 mg
grape see 100 mg
american ginseng 100mg
turkey tails mushroom 100mg

This is all formulated in one pill by a local pharmacist. I am to take it twice a day in addition to...

Fish oil and flax oil
Vitamin C
green tea
CoQ10
zinc
slenium 200mcg
a probiotic complex

He also recomended that I have 1 tsp of flax seed a day and work my way up to 2 tlb spoons daily.

What do you all think? I am unsure about all the flax??? I am er- but doesn't it seem like I should stay away from estrogens?? Anyone know about mushrooms???

Input is most welcome.

[SoCalGal]

I use 2 tablespoons ground flax in my protein shake everyday. I take a bunch of vitamins, fish oil, coQ, and also a probiotic. I don't take any green tea. But I drink it on occasion. I don't know about the herbal things - I'd have a hard time swallowing the turkey tail. lol
xoFlori

[janet/FL]

Penelope, this is kind of off/on the subject of your post. It is how to test for individual nutritional needs. Have you or anyone had nutritional testing? I had a blood test prior to chemo that said I was in need of certain nutrinets. I would think now that I have different needs.
I went to a new doctor, an MD, and he wanted to do a hair or saliva test for nutrients. I said that Consumers Report had done a study of labs doing hair analysis and that they very unreliable. I don't think saliva testing could be much better particularly when compared to blood. The blood test was over $500.00 and much to my surprise, BC/BS paid for it.
I want to get a second blood test, and am not sure what to tell this new doctor. Dr. Andrew Weil does not like the hair or saliva tests. I wonder about my doctor if he thinks the are good.
Thanks, and sorry Penelope if this does not help to answer your question. (Personally, from what I know, I think your doctor's recommendations are very good.)

[penelope]

thanks for the input.
Any other thoughts, Lani? RB?

[R.B.]

Penelope,

I am a lay person and not an expert, and my subject is omega six and three. Please discuss dietary change with your doctor.

Please see the greek diet and cox 2 posts, which contain the some information as to why.


http://her2support.org/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=30984&highlight=greek+diet

http://her2support.org/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=24410&highlight=greek+diet

It is ESSENTIAL to balance the omega threes and sixes which means cutting down on omega sixes, the highest sources of which are vegetable oils (excluding Virgin oil, flax and a little coconut and a few other exceptions - see nutrition data)

http://www.nutritiondata.com/topics/fatty-acids

There is a range of opinions on how much long chain omega three, but many sites making medical recommendations suggest between 1 gram of DHA, to 2.7 grams DHA plus EPA. A trial suggested that uptake of DHA in women drops off at about 2 grams a day. Smaller amounts will help but my personal preference is for the higher end rather than say 200 mg a day.

It is also important to get some mother omega three found in vegetable sources of which flax is a high omega three source. You will have to read the posts and decide if you prefer flaxseed or oil. There is evidence flaxseed is beneficial but it is a topic of debate as some have concerns.

But as above do talk to your doctor as fish oil can case blood thinning etc.

[ckeesling]

Dr. Andrew Weil swears by mushrooms for medicinal purposes, the milk thistle for liver, not sure about the others. My onc is very uneasy with taking anything, including green tea,that could increase the hormone levels. I wasn't even ER/PR pos and had an adrenalectomy in Sept, I've had a complete hysterectomy and he still doesn't want me to use anything that has anything to do with hormones.

Let us know how you feel after trying it!
Good luck
Cat

[fullofbeans]

Hi

I take Reishi mushroom extract. These are highly indicated by TCM in our case. At the time I started to take them I looked up at research info on them and I remembered that they were really given excellent back up, consequently I take them every day. Have not kept track of what I read but this article is a good start:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lingzhi

Alos I found that they had a nice mood enhancing feeling IMO

[CLTann]

I take Reishi mushroom (or Ling tze in Chinese) everyday. I know many friends who are also on this mushroom pills, and they are doing very well against different cancers. I also take flaxseed, freshly ground, with my cereal. Another herb I take is curcumin. For bone protection, I take once a week Fromax. In addition, I am on Femara as described below my signature. I also started vitamin D, 2000 mg dosage. I figure these items cannot hurt me. For cooking, I use olive oil and canola oil.

Hope the above helps.

[jhandley]

Hi
I take most of what you are on. partic. the q10, fish and flax oil AND I AM RELIGIOUS ABOUT FLAXSEED MEAL 25 G A DAY IN A MUFFIN. REMEMBER THECANADIAN STUDY WHICH FOUND THAT FOR ALL TYPES OF bc 31 % REDUCTION IN GROWTH, 34 % TUMOUR DEATH AND FOR HER 2+ 70% HER 2 RECEPTORS KNOCKED OUT.
I also take olive leaf extract.

cheers
Jackie (down under)

[penelope]

for flax seed muffins?

[jhandley]

Just replace 60 % of the flour in a recipe with flaxseed meal.

[Mgarr]

http://www.cancerrd.com/recipes/banana_walnut_flax_muffins1.htm

This recipe is excellent.

Mary

[fullofbeans]

Hi Jhandley,

The % you quote sounds impressive for lax seeds would you have the ref please? Thanks

[R.B.]

Hi,

I hope this helps. Please discuss diet with your doctor.

If you search the board for Flax and flaxseed you will find some posts that look at the pluses and minuses of flax seed and oil.

This was a response I got from a researcher into the subject - but it is one of debate. (Some flaxoil may contain some lignans I read somewhere else - vague recollection)

"There seems to be a lot of confusion on the website below. I will
attempt to answer some of the questions posted on this site: firstly,
flax oil does not contain any lignans as they do not dissolve in oil.
Lignans are present in every plant food that we eat only more
concentrated in flax and therefore commercially more viable to extract.
There is products available on the market that do deliver specific
quantities of flax lignans.

Lignans are phytoestrogens but they are very weak and only elicit a
very weak estrogenic response. The current research suggests that the
advantage of this is the body detects them as estrogens (which produce a
strong estrogenic response) and therefore produces less harmful
estrogens (homoeostatic process) though inhibition of the aromatase
enzymes, more SHBG to bind estrogens (for elimination from the body) and
increases the conversion of estrogens to the 2OHE metabolism pathway
over the 16OHE (by increasing CYP1A1 enzymes). This whole process has a
cyclic effect with the end result being less bioavailable estrogen
(harmful), increased 2OHE (protective), and decreased 16OHE (harmful)."

[hutchibk]

I would only like to ask/offer - are you currently in/on any kind of pharmaceutical cancer treatment? If so, please follow due diligence to be certain that nothing you are taking will interfere with the actions/efficacy/pathways of your treatments, as many herbs/foods/supplements can have negative or neutralizing effect on treatments.

[Bill]

I like to sprinkle ground flax seed, wheat germ and blueberries on my yogurt. Also, you can increase Omega-3 in your diet by switching from "ordinary" eggs to "Eggland's Best" or another brand higher in O-3's. Eat more fresh-caught salmon, and cold-water fish like cod or haddock. Also, I use "Smart-Balance" products, maybe someone can tell me if that one is all it's cracked up to be, but it makes sense to me. Good Luck and God bless you all,, Love, Bill

[Becky]

At the New Year's Eve Party I went to everyone asked what are the most healthy things you can do (I suppose so they could adopt those things the next morning)!

I believe, believe, believe in Omega 3 fatty acids. I ranked the healthy things as such - exercise (walk 5 hrs a week/one hr 5X a week - you can do more but this is easy for just about anyone), next is to eat 5-9 servings of veggies and fruits, 3-6 g of fish oil per day (adjust if you are eating a big hunk of salmon that day or having flax pancakes with walnuts), switch all oil to extra virgin olive oil and canola (for high heat cooking or baking), take 1000iu of D3 per day (adjust to more or less depending on where you live and the time of year - if you can get natural sunshine, that's a great thing) and have good quality whole grains/beans.

These things naturally help you cut down on large portions of red meat. Watch the white carbs and switch to whole grain pasta, sweet potato or yams, and brown rice. Use wasa and other whole grain foods. Read the labels and don't use foods with chemicals - not even marinades (and chemicals are my livehood).

I also believe in CoQ 10 because it promotes mitochondrial health and supports mRNA functions (plus its a great antioxidant and you can't get enough via food unless all you eat is red meat). And an aspirin a day to regulate Cox 2 as safely as one can.

But of all supplements, Omega 3 fatty acids is it. I believe this. As a biochemist with an advanced degree - it fits every possible scenario (even for women with only high ER/PR+ and not Her2 as the cholestrol pathway (see where exercise comes in) is a precursor to prostagladins, estrogen, etc. If you could see the cascades, you would see that this works - or at least it starts to shift things in your favor.

[Bill]

Wow, awesome Becky, I forgot to add my daily intake of almonds and walnuts, I got alot of info. from the Superfoods books by Steven Pratt and Kathy Mathews. Love to you all,,Bill

[penelope]

So Becky are you a biochemist? I was not sure from reading your post. Seems like I should know this.

Do you have any recommendations for taking fish or flax oil? It seems to give my liver a hard time.

Also do you know anything about the mitotic index of a tumor specifically what type of prognositc value it carries?

[MCS]

Becky

You're great. like always

I was starting to look into taking some pill with omega 3s since I only eat fish twice a week. I hardly eat red meat.

[Becky]

On some pathology reports the mitotic index is reported as it is part of a Nottingham score where histology, tubules and mitotic index scores (all ranging 1-3) are added to come to the Nottingham score (or Grade of cancer). A score of 1 for any of these is low, 2 is intermediate and 3 is high. So a mitotic score of 1 means that the cells are dividing slowly and a 3 is rapidly dividing.

I have heard that if you get a score of 2 in any area, you should make sure the slides are read at a big cancer center (ie: Sloan Kettering, Dana Farber, UCLA, MD Anderson etc) because it really takes expertise to read a 2 in any category (too much to be low, to little to be high) so you really have to have a "feel" for it.

I am a biochemist by education but worked as a chemist many, many years. Now, I still work in chemistry but in selling and marketing (currently raw materials for hydraulic fluids, brake fluids, transmission fluids and synthetic lubricants).

[penelope]

Thank you Becky for answering my questions. I had wondered about your science background as you are very knowledgable and a great wealth of info on this site. Thank you for that. You help so very many of us.

I actually scored a 1 on the mitotic index and grade 2 for tubles and 3 for how wild the cells looked, which all worked out to a grade 2 cancer.

I had my slides read at UCSF, Franc Buck Breast Center.

I was wondering how it is if Her2+ is so fast growing you can have a tumor slowly dividing? Wouldn't this be a contradicition?

[Chelee]

I have that mitotic index on my path report too and got a 3 in all area's giving me 9 of 9 on my Richardson scale. (Very bad.) :(

Becky...I have ALWAYS wanted to have my slides read else where...do you think that would be a good idea at this point? I know its after the fact but I've thought many times I would like to send them to UCLA or Sloan. (I was talked out of a 2nd opinion when first DX so my slides were never looked at my any one else.) I've always wondered what a *major* cancer center would come up with? What's your opinion on this if you don't mind?

Chelee

[Becky]

Penelope - my scores were exactly the same as yours. I had a second opinion at Sloan (as my community hospital had the tubules at 3 but Sloan then Hopkins both reported a 2 for that). I think the same about mitotic index being low but that's a good thing to have.

Chelee - at this point, it probably doesn't matter as treatment is over. In the future, we all will want to make sure all the new markers are tested and the readings are correct as even Top2A will start being tested (yeah)!

[Chelee]

Becky, I had a feeling you would say that. :) I've always had this curiousity about my path report? Nothing has went right since the day I started here. So many problems and oops with me that its not funny. Then later on when I read my path report even the stains my cancer center used were *not* approved at that time nor did they have to be. But since everything on my path report was about as bad as it gets...I guess I always thought how nice it would be for a major cancer center to come up with a better reading of my path report. (Even though it wouldn't change a thing now.) They worked so hard at keeping me from getting a 2nd opinion that I sometimes wonder about the whole thing? I should try to forget it...I'm still here and doing good all things considered. (Knock on wood.) But God forbid something pops up in the future for me, things will certainly be different. I'm ready now! Thanks Becky!Chelee

[R.B.]

Becky

Thanks for the Omega Three post.

It is indeed fascinating complex and relevant.

RB