Green Tea Studies

[Tom]

I have been up all night trying to find the best of hundreds of articles on the therapeutic effects of green tea and it's main active compound, the polyphenol EGCG, on breast cancer cells. I particularly wanted to insure that the article was one from a reputable research source, so as not to have the oncologist pooh pooh the thing the way Mom's surgeon did when I mentioned green tea extracts to her. I found that dismissal very frustrating considering the fact that is has been demonstrated that the EGCG in green tea can inhibit angiogenesis, promote apoptosis, and down-regulate HER2 overexpression in HER2+ breast cancers.

I found a research abstract that seemed to fit the bill, and have provided the link to it here. I am determined to gain the interest of the oncologist by showing him the parts of the article that state EGCG also improves the effectiveness of Taxol when it is used to treat HER2+ malignancies. It seems that he uses Taxol in many of his patients with breast cancers. He has hinted at the use of Taxotere for Mom if her upcoming PET and tumor markers indicate disease progression. Mom is 81, but he is treating several women as old as 85 with careful does of Taxotere. She is currently receiving weekly infusions of Herceptin.

http://clincancerres.aacrjournals.org/cgi/...t/full/9/9/3486 (http://clincancerres.aacrjournals.org/cgi/content/full/9/9/3486)

[*_Linda_*]

Hi there,

I've been told to drink decaf. , that caffinated tea could be a stimulant. And I don't want any bad cells stimulated! Green tea has caffiene so I've been drinking the decaf version but wonder if i'm getting the full benefits or if they've been flushed away. Has anyone else been told to drink decaf?
Linda

[Tom]

Dear Linda,

I give Mom buckets of NATURALLY decaffeinated green tea. The brand is Harris. The benefits are retained if the tea is naturally decaffeinated. Additionally, I add one or two regular teabags to the pot. The most benefits from the green tea are obtained in the presence of some amount of caffeine. By the way, the problem with too much caffeine is not related in any way to "stimulating" the cancer cells. They are simply the normal concerns such as blood pressure rise, loss of sleep, or risk of irregular heart rythym in those who are susceptible. Green tea has been shown to be quite safe even in large quantities. The only complaints I have heard or read of, are an upset stomach in a very few. Drink up! It can only help.

[*_Linda_*]

thanks for the info! I wasn't sure how caffiene played a part if any at all. I was just advised by my onc not to drink it. If anything, I don't just so my boobs won't feel so dense.... green tea, here I come!

[Tom]

Dear Linda,

Ask your onc why he advised that you NOT drink it. I would love to hear his/her explanation. Print the linked article that I posted originally, let him/her read it, and see what he/she says. Any serious physician that reads that article would be hard pressed to say not to drink it. I gave a printed copy of the entire article (12 pages) to my Mom's onc at her Herceptin infusion today. I also gave him an article describing the benefits of taking oleic acid during Herceptin therapy. I was pleased that he seemed so receptive to the information, yet was discouraged that he had been totally unaware of the data in the first place. It worries me that these oncs are so busy that the only time they seem to learn anything new is when they go to the ASCO conference once a year. Good Luck with your green tea.

[Gina]

Hi, Tom,

I feel your pain...back in June, I prepared an entire presentation on the potential synergies of combining oleic acid with herceptin for an onc (who shall remain nameless) but is billed the "most knowledge oncologist for her-2 in this county" with creditials from here and there and abroad and everywhere... It was back, several months after the January articles on oleic acid started coming out...

I made an appointment with him (a PAID appointment) and requested a 30-minute consult. I waited 6 weeks to get in to see him...he is not my regular onc...thank god...

I rehearsed the presentation until I had it down to 20 minutes...had all the data there...even the actual articles..not just the abstracts..plus, all the connections...a listing of every single cancer helping food I could find containing oleic acid along with levels, the safety sheets, all the bells and whistles..color graphics...line graphs, you name it...simple...clear..to the point. He walked in looked at me suspiciously over his spectacles and said, "I was told you do not take Herceptin according to directions." He had not even read one sheet of my medical records that I had had sent over to him...he did not even know I was one of the longer users of Herceptin...and he did not care...but any way..undaunted as ONLY I can be...smile...I began the presentation...and after about 6 minutes...grabbed his attention with the line graph and then moved on to the January discussion of the oleic acid and had to stop my presentation and educate him on Menendez, the research, the paper... I could not get any further in the presentation because since he knew NOTHING of oleic acid research, it would have been a total waste, plus after giving me 10 minutes of his precious time that I was paying out of pocket for...he had "to move on to the next victim"..oops uh..I meant to type ... "patient" smile...sighhh. Anyway, I left him with a copy of the published article. Nothing whatsoever came out of it. The reason cancer is never cured or at least "resolved" is because nearly everything we have been taught to believe about cancer are merely assumptions that, when empirically tested, nine times out of ten, just aren't true. I know. I have tested hundreds of said assumptions that are supposedly based on science but in clinical practice...simply are not true and do not lead to repeatable and predictable real solutions. If the patient does somehow manage to get better...it is certain...that fortune shone upon them and they "fell through the cracks." I know this seems harsh, and it is not the oncs' fault..it is such a bigger problem.. As you seem to be an avid reader, look up Helen Longino's book "Science as Social Knowledge." Sad to say, but if we on this site really want a better QOL, we will be the ones to find it for ourselves and share it with our friends here. I have a strong feeling the serious help is on the way for us all and together, we will find it. Godspeed to us all, Gina
P.S. Tom, in your OWN assessment, what do you think the green tea does to help your mom clinically and have you ACTUALLY been able to empirically confirm any benefit from oleic acid synergizing with the Herceptin. I have one small, but interesting, empirical data graph. For many years, I was taking Olive Leaf while on Herceptin not so much for the her-2, as I was unaware of any synergy at that time, but since it is anti-viral, anti-bacterial and anti-fungal all in one tab and as I was very busy raising my son alone and working as much as my health would permit, I did not have time to take so many supplements, or the money to buy them, so I would pop 2 olive leaf tabs in the morning and maybe 2 later in the day, if I thought about them...along with my basic stand -by regimen of many years.. magnesium, Vitamin A& D in fish oil, evening primrose oil, zinc, a good multi, etc). One particularly bleak January, 2004, I was very low on money and as some of the really effective supplements are not cheap, as we all know, I ran out of olive leaf and just didn't buy any more for weeks, maybe as much as two months...but I continued to take my base regimen as I had since July of 1999 (I have had mets since April of 1999). I also continued taking my herceptin, which I believe I was taking every 3-weeks at that time..yes..and of course, charting all my markers, per usual (have charted CA 27/29 since '98 and serum Her-2 since about 2003). Anyhow, when my blood work came back from the late February draw, my serum her-2 had gone from normal range to 125 in just a few weeks. I knew it was acting up again because my friend had invited me to Hershey spa as a treat for my 40th birthday which was feb. 21 and I remember not being able to enjoy the trip as much as I had hoped due to the popping up of the ol' too familar bone pain around the collar bone (I have one sternum mets that is difficult for the herceptin to get to due to scarring from surgery and adhesions under the chest wall, and it continues to light up on the bone scan..) Anyway, the herceptin dosing or schedule had not changed, the only thing different was the lack of olive leaf. So, I was scared, of course, and spared NOT time or MONEY, buying up the olive leaf I like best...purple top Nature's way because it has 250mg of REAL olive leaf mixed with 250mg of olive leaf extract. I started taking about 4 a day as I was REALLY nervous and feeling the burning bone pain and having trouble driving. On the blood draw taken three weeks later, the serum her-2 and dropped back down nearly to the normal range. and my pain eventually dissappated as it has done so many times in the past. ..that is all just anecdotal and my onc said the 125 was just an anamoly, a mistake...but she could not explain the bone pain or its "mysterious" regression. I started feeling really well again , so well, in-fact , that I moved to the 6-week Herceptin dosing strategy to accomodate my trip to Scotland and have stayed on it ever since. This January, 2005, when I saw all the articles coming out about Dr. Menedez work...my mind immediately went back to that dismal scene a year before, and my gut told me, that he just might be on to something...so then, I started doing what you did with the green tea...I started researching and investigating everything I could get my hands on regarding foods rich in oleic acid...by chance, I found that many of the foods I naturally gravitated towards were on this list and that many of the supplements I was taking had significant quantities of oleic acid in them, all unbeknowst to me prior to the research.and many other facts, with my MOST favorite being the factoid that all species of SHARK LIVERS produce oleic acid and as "SHARKS don't get Cancer" (another good book worth the read) and I started wondering how much oleic acid shark cartlidge contained and other such trivial questions of an unyielding and wondering mind..smile. Also, I personally do not drink the green tea because caffeine seems to aggrevate a small fibroid I have, but I do drink echinachea, on occasion, which is green in color, and has very little if any caffeine and find it to be VERY useful in the reduction of inflamation associated with her-2 cancer and in fighting off colds and flu viruses. It also seems to stimulate the liver to make the bile flow easier which has to be a good thing and it seems to give good energy upon waking if taken at night with just about a half teaspoon of honey. I have also measured increases in certain Eosinophils, cells that are known for eating big junk like parasites and stuff. Have you tried the Desitin with 40 per cent zinc oxide on the feet remedy for your mom to boost her Lymphs. Really helps. Good luck to you both, Gina

[Rhonda4]

Tom,

Please see the attached web site (she is a registered dietician and directly answers your question). Also, please refer to her post regarding green tea and ports. She is a 3 time cancer survivor and is HIGHLY regarded by the RD's in this area...her diet and book are wonderful.

http://www.cancerrd.com/FAQs/FAQ17.htm

Rhonda

[joy]

Gina is right. The first piece of advice i give every client of mine (i work in the cancer field-hard to believe after my recent freak out) is, "YOU are the only one who is truly going to look out for your own ass." (forgive my mouth please). It is we the 'patients' who have to make sure our records have been sent where they need to be before the appointment, it is we who have to do our own focused research on our particular diagnosis, it is we who have to continue to bring this research to the oncs and staff, whether they listen or not, it is we who have to look for the trials as very few oncs spend time matching folks up, it is we who on a daily basis have to support our bodies, especially if necessary evils are tearing it apart and ultimately it is the individual who has to listen, listen intently to our hearts, our heads and our guts to make sure they align and then act accordingly. If the person with the cancer just can't do all these things, then, in order for it all to work, another person in our lives has to do it for us (i owe my sister so much for getting me in a position of self-advocacy and when i freak, she takes over again). Thank goodness your mom has you to help her do these things, Tom.

love, joy