Herceptin response..isn't it low?

[Rich]

Seems like when response rates to Herceptin are described, I usually see 14% or so. Is this what's understood?

[Kristen]

Rich, Good question and one I would like to know also. Al from Canada posted the other day that radiation increased our rate by 30%. My rad onc told me it would only maybe give me up to 10% increase.
Sometimes I wonder where they get there numbers, is it based on science or observation of what they see coming in the door.
I look forward to seeing what is posted. Thank you for a great question. Take Care. k

[Lolly]

Rich, are you talking about survival rates or response rates? Here's a link to a chart by PathyVision comparing response rates between Her2+ given Herceptin plus chemo vs Herceptin mono.

http://www.vysis.com/HerceptinResponseRates_35820.asp?bhcp=1

I think the statistics for survival rates haven't shown much of an increase yet, but Herceptin hasn't been in clinical use long enough for the stats to truly reflect what a difference it's made in the survival stats. I believe we'll start seeing an increase in the numbers in the next few years.

Love, Lolly

[al from canada]

Hi Kristen,
I pulled this off an article, I think the views are fairly consistant. Al

Is radiation therapy necessary if the margins of the removed tissue are negative?
Many studies have reviewed this approach for patients with invasive cancers. Nearly all show the risk of relapse in the breast is much higher than when radiation is not used (20 to 40 percent) than when it is (five to 10 percent). Having breast cancer reappear in this way is a very traumatic event psychologically. Also, patients may need to have a mastectomy to be cured in this situation, so in more cases they may lose the breast than if they had undergone radiation therapy initially. Finally, not everyone who has a recurrence in the breast can be cured. Therefore, radiation therapy after lumpectomy is the standard treatment around the world.


And another recent one from Al, this one talking death rates: so I would assume re-occurance rates are even higher??.........


Radiation improves breast cancer survival rate: study
Last Updated Fri, 21 Jan 2005 10:20:36 EST
CBC News
MONTREAL - Women at high risk of recurring breast cancer who receive radiation in addition to a mastectomy and chemotherapy have better survival rates, say Canadian researchers.

The discovery comes from an analysis of 20 years of data from 318 British Columbia premenopausal breast cancer patients.

It shows that those with radiation of both their chest wall and the surrounding areas containing lymph nodes had better survival rates with few long-term side-effects, compared to half the women who had chemotherapy alone after surgery.

Women with large tumours and those whose cancer has spread to three or more lymph nodes are considered high risk.

The study appears in Wednesday's Journal of the National Cancer Institute. It found that when radiation was used after surgery and chemotherapy, there was a 32 per cent reduction in the death rate from breast cancer.

[Kristen]

Al,
thank you, that is the best news I have heard. It also is interesting to me that they have the cut off at 3 vs 4 lymph nodes. My old onc, said 4 you get rads and 3 you don't. I had my consultation with the rad onc and we both agreed that I was healthy enough to recieve rads even though I had only 3 lymphnodes +. My onc was so mad that I took rads, but I wanted to do everything I could now so I didn't have to deal with it later. thank you again. I guess my question is the lower the lymph nodes, the less it helps? Take Care, K

[Kristen]

Lolly,
Thank you for the site info. Tell me if I am wrong, but that is for response rates correct? That 54% Herceptin will work? Can you explain how that correlates into non-recocurrance or not. I think the 2 would be seperate, but then I don't know for sure. It would be interesting to see a statistic like that. Have a great day. K

[Guest]

Kristen, the 54% response rate in the PathVysion chart reflects response to Herceptin + Chemotherapy...it doesn't show what type of response, whether complete(aka remission) or partial, and also doesn't show whether these patients were early stage or metastatic stage. So it probably isn't the best model for you to look at.
Instead, take a look at the following article, I've included a link after the excerpt:

"NEW ORLEANS (Reuters) - Researchers said on Sunday they halted a breast cancer study of patients who received Herceptin as part of their pre-surgery chemotherapy after many patients' tumors completely disappeared.

Dr. Aman Buzdar, of the M. D. Anderson Cancer Center in Houston, reported here at the American Society of Clinical Oncology meeting that more than 65% of early-stage HER-2 positive patients completely responded to the treatment compared with 26% of patients with similar tumor types who received chemotherapy only..."


http://www.oncolink.com/resources/article....th=06&year=2004 (http://www.oncolink.com/resources/article.cfm?c=3&s=8&ss=23&id=10801&month=06&year=2004)


Love, Lolly

[Lolly]

That was me, :) Also, forgot to add that neither of the two links I've posted on this reflect recurrence rates, just response rates; You're right Kristen, that's a seperate issue.

Love, Lolly

[Cathy W]

From what I've read in my research and what my onc. has given me, the response rate of Herceptin ALONE is only 6%, but it increases the response rates of other chemos by 25-40%. Basically only 6% of women with active mets will go into remission on Herceptin alone.
My onc. firmly believes that Herceptin has slowed my mets significantly, although I don't appear to be one of the fortunate 6%. I'll take what I can get, and keep looking!

[Kristen]

Lolly,
Your an angel, thank you for keeping so much info at your finger tips and being able to post them when needed. Your a saint. TY. Take Care k

[Ginger]

Good article Lolly....good question. Thanx.